alter.112l.tanja,
-> #110, dzim.> elem....Ok Computer od Radiohead-a ?
Radiohead
Ok Computer
airbag
paranoid android
subterranean homesick alien
exit music (for a film)
let down
karma police
fitter happier
electioneering
climbing up the walls
no surprises
lucky
the tourist
mnogo tuzan album :(
ok.txtalter.113dzim,
-> #112, l.tanja
<M> mnogo tuzan album :(
i mnogo chudan...dosta lelektronike...
a da je tuzan...pa sad, uvek oni tako...
i da - fala...
alter.114dzim,
NEVIDJENO !!!
NEPREVAZIDJENO !!! FENOMENALNO !!!
JEDINSTVENO !!! ...DO JAJA !!!
ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI UTORAK ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI 17.02.'98. ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI S K C ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI Baldrick - gitara/vokal ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI Senna - bas gitara ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI Dzim - bubnjevi ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI Pyc - vokal ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI Tijana - klavijature ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
ZLI KABLOVI ZLI KABLOVI
... e, da...pochetak negde oko 9 - 10 uveche...
alter.115apostol,
Izašo Pearl Jam: Yield na bugarinu...
JoTzoqA
alter.116rile,
e
ko peva ono shto peva riba i pushta se petkom na akademiji a
i subotom, a ide otprilike na na naaa naaaAaa, a masniji deo ide
DZN! I'm blabla DZN! I'm blabla DZN! I'm
blablablablablaBLABLALBALAAAAAAAAARGHH!! ?
alter.117sherloc,
-> #116, rile
A si lepo i slikovito objasnio :)
alter.118apostol,
-> #116, rile> ko peva ono shto peva riba i pushta se petkom na akademiji a
>i subotom, a ide otprilike na na naaa naaaAaa, a masniji deo ide
>DZN! I'm blabla DZN! I'm blabla DZN! I'm
>blablablablablaBLABLALBALAAAAAAAAARGHH!! ?
Svaka ti čast kako si objasnio :)))) Znam koja je pesma.
SHERYL CROW
Ime pesme: nepoznato, ali se govori o ispovesti devojke koja je
otišla iz rodnog Teksasa u grad da se bavi najstarijim zanatom.
Uglavnom, počinje baladasto, kao javlja se mami preko telefona, prvi
put refren ide "I love you! I miss you!", a posle toga refren menja
tekst i taj "masniji" deo ide:
DŽNNN! I'm hungry! DŽN! I'm starving!
Ako ti treba pesma obrati se van.goghu, čuo sam je samo jedanput kada
mi je on puštao ;)
JoTzoqA
alter.119van.gogh,
-> #118, apostol
SHERYL CROW
Ime pesme: nepoznato, ali se govori o ispovesti devojke koja je
otisla iz rodnog Teksasa u grad da se bavi najstarijim zanatom.
...e pazi korekcija ... pesma nije od gospoje CROW...
Pesmu peva riba po imenu Tresy Bonham "Trejsi Bonhem" ili tako
nekako ....:)
Sve u svemu pesma se zove ... -MOTHER MOTHER-
VaN.GoGH
alter.120dzim,
-> #118, apostol
<M> SHERYL CROW
<M> Ime pesme: nepoznato, ali se govori o ispovesti devojke koja je
Ono, vole...
To je Tracy Bonham...pesma Mother Mother...
...a vidim vec reche kolega van.gogh...ako ga...
treba txt?
alter.121apostol,
-> #120, dzim> Ono, vole...
Vole i ja vas :)
> To je Tracy Bonham...pesma Mother Mother...
> ...a vidim vec reche kolega van.gogh...ako ga...
> treba txt?
Ok, bre, pretpostavka je bila u pitanju pošto sam samo skontao da je
nešto sheryl/alanis/sophie tipa..
JoTzoqA
alter.122goo.g,
Da li neko moze da mi poshalje textove Pavement-a?
alter.123corgan,
E ljudi znate sta mi nije jasno ko i kako moze Sheril Crow da bude uovoj
temi!Ovo je tema za alternativu a ne za neki Pro americki mekani rock koji je
vishe country nego rock!Stvarno mi niste jasni?????!!!!
alter.124senna,
-> #123, corgan>E ljudi znate sta mi nije jasno ko i kako moze Sheril Crow da bude uovoj
>temi!Ovo je tema za alternativu a ne za neki Pro americki mekani rock
>koji je vishe country nego rock!Stvarno mi niste jasni?????!!!!
A shto si ti tolko stamen? Ono.. Neka je..
alter.125goo.g,
-> #123, corganMislim da je to beda, ultra komercijalna muzika za sve
uzraste.......hm ...... to je pop muzika i nepripada ovde... po mom
mishljenju .... izvinjavam se ako grshim.
alter.126goo.g,
Da li neko mozda ima tabs za Dinosaur Jr. Bilo shta sem sa Where
You Been.
alter.127van.gogh,
Jedno obavestenje...
Jerry Cantrell izdaje solo album...
Za one koji neznaju ko je gore spomenut lik recicu samo jedno
ALICE IN CHAINS
Evo jedne njegove pesme sa solo albuma...
Ocena : 5+ :)
Stvar se zove Cut You In...
VaN.GoGH
jerry_~1.mp3alter.128rdejan,
-> #127, van.gogh>> Evo jedne njegove pesme sa solo albuma...
Ne da je jako, ne da zrači. :) Kad se pojavi ispred SKC-a, a
neko od vas to spazi, neka ovde javi, ne bilo mu zapoveđeno.
Pozdrav, Dejan
alter.129goo.g,
Da li neko ima kompletne tabs za Mad Season?
unapred hvala.
G.
alter.130dzim,
-> #127, van.gogh
faco, liche...:)
chuo sam ja za taj album davno...zaboravih mu ime...
i chuo sam da mu gostuju Les Claypool (Primus) i Rex (Pantera)
kao basisti a bubnjar mu je Sean Keaney iz Aic, naravno.
alter.131dzim,
-> #128, rdejan
<M> Ne da je jako, ne da zraci. :) Kad se pojavi ispred SKC-a, a
<M> neko od vas to spazi, neka ovde javi, ne bilo mu zapovedeno.
Ne znam, meni nije nishta posebno.
Daleko je bolji Mad Season, shto napravi pevach njihov Layne Stayley koji
je takodje daleko pozitvniji lik od gitariste koji blago recheno - sisa.
alter.132goo.g,
-> #131, dzimMad Season above all. To je nevidjena gotivendjola. A ima li neko
mozda tabs od njih? Ja imam neke ali nije dovoljno.
Bash se pitam kad su se nashli da naprave to chudo, da li su se
izlechili od droge, poshto im je to bio prvobitni plan.
G.
alter.133van.gogh,
-> #130, dzimVA>chuo sam ja za taj album davno...zaboravih mu ime...
Ajd' ako se setis javi... ;)
alter.134dzim,
-> #132, goo.g
<M> Bash se pitam kad su se nashli da naprave to chudo, da li su se
<M> izlechili od droge, poshto im je to bio prvobitni plan.
Vou, vou...polako...zashto mnozina?
Samo se Layne Staley "lechio od droge" (i nije se izlechio)
i njegov je i samo njegov Mad Season.
alter.135dzim,
-> #133, van.gogh
<M> VA>chuo sam ja za taj album davno...zaboravih mu ime...
<M>
<M> Ajd' ako se setis javi... ;)
Ja bih, al ne verujem da cu se setim...:)
Uostalom, imash na nekom od njihovih sajtova, pa vidi...
...poshto si, pretpostavljam, odatle i skino ovu pesmu
od Dzerija.
alter.136goo.g,
-> #134, dzim -=> Quoting Dzim to Goo.g <=-
<M> Bash se pitam kad su se nashli da naprave to chudo, da li su se
<M> izlechili od droge, poshto im je to bio prvobitni plan.
Dz> Vou, vou...polako...zashto mnozina?
Dz> Samo se Layne Staley "lechio od droge" (i nije se izlechio)
Dz> i njegov je i samo njegov Mad Season.
Zar se nisu nashli zajedno na lechenju Layne Staley & Mike Mcready?
A ovo drugo je chisto stvar stava !!! Ne slazem se !!!
Jel znash mozda gde bih mogao naci tabs za Mad Season?
pozdrav,
PoPLJuVaNi PRoPoVeDNiK
alter.137dzim,
-> #136, goo.g
<M> Zar se nisu nashli zajedno na lechenju Layne Staley & Mike Mcready?
Bemliga...ja samo za Stejlija znam...
<M> A ovo drugo je chisto stvar stava !!! Ne slazem se !!!
Pa, ono, nije bash da je stvar stava...
...al priznajmo da ni ja ni ti nismo upuceni u to
ko je pravio pesme. Meni se svidja verzija da je Layne
sve napravio pesme, a McReady sve solaze. BTW ni ostatak
benda nije losh...
<M> Jel znash mozda gde bih mogao naci tabs za Mad Season?
Pa, probaj na chuvenu "Olgu" da odesh...
...a moguce je i da AIC sajtovi poseduju iste.
alter.138dzim,
Layne Staley. God Am.
layne.jpgalter.139dzim,
E jel slusha neko Prono For Pyros?
i jel poseduje txt istih?
alter.140dzim,
Vidish dileme...ja bi o Pepersima, a ne znam u koju temu da gi
frljim...pa ono, poshto je ovo na slovo A, moze ovde..
Elem, ja chuo, kao, neka fora, nisu se raspali RHCP, no su se
ispolarizovale dve strane te tako pocepashe bend na dva dela.
Naime, Navaro i Ched Smit su otishli svojim putem i oformili
neki bend a Fli i Kidis ostadoshe sami ko na samom pochetku i
sad dobavljaju novog gitaristu i bubnjara i prave si novi album...
...eto, tako ja chuh...
alter.141dzim,
Da, chuh takodje da je Scott Weiland izbacio solo album, za shta
smatram i iskreno se nadam da je do jaja...dok njegov ostatak benda
kiseli u onom sranju...kako se vec zove..Talk Show il tako neshto...
alter.142medymed,
Ima li neko GGL ( Gal guitar library ) i od koje godine?
Vrlo bi mi trebao.
Thanks
alter.145l.tanja,
Biografija - Janes Addiction
www.wallofsound.com
Members: Stephen Perkins
Perry Farrell
Flea
David M. Navarro
Past/Other Members: Eric Avery
Home Base: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Label Affiliation: Warner Bros.
Formed: 1986
JANE'S ADDICTION, the band that fertilized the
seed that eventually sprouted into mass-marketed
"alternative rock," was the best-known and best-selling
of the influential bands who were truly "alternative"
before the label became a buzz word. Over the course of
its initial five-year, three-album history, the band's
energetic, decadent hard-rock served as an inspiration
for the Nirvanas and Soundgardens of the world, bands
that would have to wait another few years for the music
they loved (and played) to gain mainstream acceptance.
Though the group disbanded just as alternative rock was
breaking into the mainstream, Jane's Addiction left an
indelible mark on the face of music, both in terms of
the groups it inspired and in the form of Lollapalooza,
the annual circus-like traveling music festival
masterminded by Jane's frontman Perry Farrell in 1991.
Ironically, now that alternative rock itself is on the
wane, Jane's Addiction has reformed--temporarily--for
a new album and tour.
Hailing from Hollywood, Jane's Addiction merged the
visceral elements of classic arena rock with the menacing
image and approach of punk in a manner that late-eighties
metal bands did not. Over this tonal landscape, vocalist
Perry Farrell's nasal rantings and at once offensive,
hallucinatory, and self-indulgent lyrics roamed free.
Farrell (born Perry Bernstein) had moved to Los Angeles
from New York in the early eighties, and had changed his
name to a play on the word "peripheral," and formed Psi
Com, a goth group that released one indie-label EP in 1985
before splitting up. (The EP was reissued in 1993 by Triple
X records.) Farrell hooked up with guitarist David Navarro
and bassist Eric Avery in 1986, and the trio named the band
they subsequently formed Jane's Addiction, after the woman
who first introduced them. Drummer Stephen Perkins was
brought into the fold soon thereafter, and the quartet
started playing the Hollywood club scene.
Farrell and his bandmates created a powerful musical
persona that eschewed the histrionics preferred by the
rash of style-over-substance bands toiling in Hollywood at
the time in favor of crafting hard-edged songs that were
propelled by Navarro's razor-sharp riffing and girded by
Avery and Perkins' throbbing rhythmic presence. In 1987,
Triple X released a Jane's Addiction eponymous live album
that effectively captured on disc the energy of the band's
incendiary club performances. Jane's Addiction featured
early versions of the future hit "Jane Says," the fan
staple "Pigs in Zen," and a reworking of the Rolling
Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil."
Soon after the album's release, Warner Brothers won a
bidding war to sign the band and subsequently released
1988's Nothing's Shocking, a record that would go on to
become an underground favorite. For that album, the band
refined its edgy, hard-hitting musical attack within
the scope of Farrell's provocative, esoteric, and--by
his own admission--substance-addled artistic visions.
Though Nothing's Shocking only peaked on the Billboard
album chart at No. 103, it did gain the band entrÚe into
hip college-radio circles and quickly garnered them a
substantial cult following.
Farrell and company followed Nothing's Shocking with what
would be their commercial breakthrough, 1990's Ritual de
lo Habitual. Ritual contained only nine tracks, but it
was far more expansive and ambitious than its predecessor,
which had only hinted at the epic capability the band
brought to fruition on its sophomore effort. While
characteristic rockers like the first Ritual single,
"Stop," still had their place, atmospheric, multiphasic
pieces like "Three Days" and "Of Course" (the latter
incorporates Eastern musical influences with Perkins'
vibrant, tribal drumming style) gave the album its unique
flavor. Ritual's stature was immeasurably boosted by the
inclusion of the band's biggest hit to date, "Been Caught
Stealing"--the upbeat, hip-hop-flavored song catapulted
the album onto Billboard's Top Twenty (thanks in part to
heavy MTV rotation of the song's video), and the band to
the brink of stardom.
By 1991, it appeared that Jane's Addiction was poised to
make a huge commercial breakthrough, and that same year,
Farrell was instrumental in the creation of the first
Lollapalooza festival, which Jane's headlined. The success
of Lollapalooza (which also featured Living Colour,
Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Butthole Surfers, Body Count,
and Nine Inch Nails) brought the band tremendous attention,
making it all the more surprising when Farrell announced
that Jane's Addiction would disband at the end of the tour.
Yet, somehow, it seemed oddly fitting that a group known
for its unconventionality would choose to break up at the
height of its popularity.
After the split, Navarro took over lead guitar duties for
the Red Hot Chili Peppers, one of Jane's Addiction's peer
bands from its L.A. club-scene tenure, while Avery moved
on to play in Polar Bear. (The pair also collaborated on
a 1994 album under the name Deconstruction.) Farrell
continued to oversee the Lollapalooza festivals for several
years, and he formed Porno for Pyros with Perkins, bassist
Martyn LeNoble, and guitarist Pete DiStefano in 1992.
The Pyros scored a minor it the following year with "Pets,"
a single off their self-titled Warner Brothers debut.
They released a follow-up album, Good God's Urge, in 1996.
Today, with the so-called alternative nation Jane's
Addiction helped foster arguably dissolved, the band's
original lineup--minus Avery and plus Red Hot Chili Peppers'
bass player Flea--has reunited, or, as Farrell puts it,
"relapsed." Signs that Jane's might reconvene surfaced
in early 1997, when Navarro and Flea played on Porno for
Pyros' contribution to the Private Parts soundtrack,
"Hard Charger"--a song that sounded more like Farrell's
former band than his present one. By the summer, plans
for a full-fledged Jane's reunion were underway, with Flea
officially taking the place of Avery, who declined Farrell's
invitation to participate. The new Jane's lineup went into
the studio to record two new songs for an "odds and sods"
collection of demos, outtakes, and live tracks titled
Kettle Whistle, which was released in November of 1997.
The I-Itz M-My Party Tour, which kicked off in Los Angeles
a month earlier, has seen the band playing to sellout crowds
and earning stronger critical praise than it did in its
heyday.
As for what happens after the scheduled relapse, the members
say they plan to return to their respective current bands,
leaving Jane's Addiction to resume its standing as a major
footnote in the annals of rock history. But success has a
funny way of changing the best-laid plans, which could mean
this relapse will evolve into a rebirth.
alter.146dzim,
Layne Staley sa sve izvrnutim ochima.
lejn.jpgalter.147l.tanja,
Biografija - Sonic Youth
www.wallofsound.com
Members: Kim Gordon
Lee Ranaldo
Thurston Moore
Steve Shelley
Past/Other Members: Richard Edson
Bob Bert
Home Base: New York, NY, USA
Label Affiliation: Geffen
Formed: 1981
From its beginnings as an avatar of New York's "No
Wave" movement - a post-punk, post-New Wave style of
music characterized by drones, dissonance, and general
abrasiveness - Sonic Youth has steadily evolved its
experiments in sound into something not merely
innovative, but also wholly palatable. In a career
spanning 17 years and 13 albums, the band's musical
artistry has resided in its ability to generate exultant
(and often beautiful) melodies out of seeming instrumental
chaos - the aural equivalent of a William S. Burroughs
novel. In that sense, Sonic Youth is perhaps the only band
since the Velvet Underground to successfully wed the energy
of punk rock to the ambitious spirit of the avant-garde
that extends beyond music. And while it has never achieved
enormous commercial success, the quartet is generally
credited with blazing the trail for the likes of Nirvana
and Pavement.
The genesis of the group's sound can be traced to New York
City guitar-orchestra composer Glenn Branca, with whom Sonic
Youth's two guitarists, Lee Ranaldo and Thurston Moore,
worked in the late seventies. Raised in Bethel, Conn., Moore
attended Western Connecticut State College for a semester
before moving in 1978 to New York's Lower East Side.
Immersing himself in the scene swirling around such clubs as
CBGB's and Max's Kansas City, he soon joined an art-rock group
called the Coachmen; the band dissolved later that same year.
Three years older than Moore, Lee Ranaldo grew up in Glen Cove,
Long Island. Prior to working with Branca in various ensembles,
Ranaldo played in his own band, the Fluks. He and Moore met for
the first time when their respective groups performed during an
"audition night" at CBGB's. Moore recalled the encounter for
Goldmine magazine in 1994: "Lee and I had like-minded ideas. We
were both kind of arty, doing something arch and new, so we
decided to get gigs together. We would play at the Botany Talk
House, which was like a little fern bar in Midtown that was
starting to have bands. Then Lee started playing with [Branca].
I was fascinated by Glenn because of a performance I saw of
his six-guitar [ensemble] at a loft space. It was just totally
awesome. I think I met him right as the Coachmen stopped
playing."
While Ranaldo pursued various endeavors with Branca, Moore (whose
role in Branca's projects was more limited) met and fell in love
with the woman who would eventually become Sonic Youth's bassist.
In addition to working as a visual artist, Los Angeles native Kim
Gordon had played in several groups prior to meeting Moore, most
notably the all-girl group CKM. Soon, she and Moore began
recruiting a rotating cast of musicians for a band-in-progress
that was variously called Male Bonding, Red Milk, and the Arcadians.
Nothing really clicked, however, until Moore convinced Ranaldo to
join the group during a weeklong Manhattan event called Noise Fest.
With Ranaldo on board, and with the addition of drummer Richard
Edson to the quartet, Sonic Youth was born.
Though undeniably adventurous, Sonic Youth's early albums were
essentially apprentice works that employed feedback, harmonics,
and other guitar noises to convey a sense of doom and gloom.
Released on Branca's Neutral label in 1982 and 1983, respectively,
the Sonic Youth EP and Confusion Is Sex (the latter of which saw
former Lydia Lunch drummer Bob Bert replacing Edson) evidenced
the band's predilection for unconventionally tuned guitars often
played (or banged on) with screwdrivers or drumsticks. The group
gradually perfected its approach, and 1985's Bad Moon Rising
offered the first real intimation of Sonic Youth's ability to
weave wall-of-guitar soundscapes into accessible songs. The band
further honed its compositional skills on EVOL (1986) and Sister
(1987), with Bert's replacement, Steve Shelley, providing
much-needed improvements to the rhythm section and helping to
stabilize a lineup that has remained permanent to this day.
The 1988 release of Daydream Nation established Sonic Youth as
one of the most significant and influential guitar bands of the
decade. Recorded on a meager budget of $30,000, this sprawling
71-minute tour de force garnered near-universal critical acclaim.
Though the double-album never cracked the Billboard charts
(indeed, no Sonic Youth release has ever sold more than 300,000
units), Rolling Stone ranked the album 45th in its special "Best
Albums of the '80s" issue. Not surprisingly, major label
representatives soon came calling, and by the end of 1989, the
band had inked a deal with Geffen Records.
Perhaps inevitably, Sonic Youth's '90s albums - Goo (1990), Dirty
(1992), Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star (1994), and
Washing Machine (1995) - are less groundbreaking than its previous
releases, what with the band having settled into a musical zone of
its own creation. In a true sign of emerging mainstream acceptance,
Sonic Youth was selected in 1990 to open for Neil Young on a
series of arena concerts, and in 1991, the group headlined a
European tour that included the then-little-known trio Nirvana.
(Incidentally, that tour is well chronicled in the documentary
SonicYouth: 1991, The Year Punk Broke.) By 1995, such was the
band's prestige that it was chosen to headline the Lollapalooza
tour, which included among its itinerants Moore and Gordon's
newborn daughter, Coco.
In the midst of such band activities, the members of Sonic Youth
have vigorously pursued various side projects, which include
several solo albums and countless collaborations with other
artists. One such notable effort, 1988's The Whitey Album, saw
the band team with bassist Mike Watt (The Minutemen, fIREHOSE)
under the name Ciccone Youth. Shelley also operates an
independent label called Smells Like Records, and Gordon started
up her own clothing line, X-Girl, several years ago.
In 1997, Sonic Youth took a hiatus from its Geffen duties to
release three improvisational and instrumental EPs on its own
indie label. Those recordings are said to have provided the
blueprint for Sonic Youth's most recent album, a thousand
leaves, which was recorded in the band's new Manhattan studio.
Sonic Youth will tour the United States in the summer of 1998.
alter.148dzim,
-> #145, l.tanja
<M> Biografija - Janes Addiction
zavaljujem na opshirnim informacijama...
alter.149krsta,
NIRVANA.VOC
SMELLS LIKE TEEN SPIRIT
UVOD U PESMU
KRLE
nirvana.raralter.151corgan,
Jedan .mp3...
Ja pravio i obradjivao u COOL EDIT PRO-u....
Mocan program....
Choaking.mp3
choaking.zipalter.152corgan,
-> #151, corgan(> Jedan .mp3...
(> ja pravio i obradjivao u COOL EDIT PRO-u....
Obavezno skinite.
Ocu da cujem utiske.
Malo je poduze al ne smeta, zar ne. :)
alter.153van.gogh,
KANDAKODZAINEBOJSA...IgrackaPlacka...album jebeno vlada...
ko nije presluso zajebo se ... !
Ajd' pa cu za koj dan da posaljem neku stvar...
Album cista jebena 10-ka...!!!
alter.154corgan,
-> #153, van.gogh(>KANDAKODZAINEBOJSA...IgrackaPlacka...album jebeno vlada...
Najzad neko zdrav...
U petak su u Barutani...
Nisu bas alter. al ko mu jebe kevu...
alter.155petarg,
-> #154, corgan> KANDAKODZAINEBOJSA
> Nisu bas alter. al ko mu jebe kevu...
Nisu bas alter? U ovoj jebenoj zemlji i brit pop je
alter. Alter je sve sve sto ne mozes cuti na Pinku
(dok oni na City-ju ne saznaju da je to cushty).
alter.156corgan,
-> #155, petarg(> Nisu bas alter? U ovoj jebenoj zemlji i brit pop je
alter. Alter je sve sve sto ne mozes cuti na Pinku
(dok oni na City-ju ne saznaju da je to cushty).
Lepo kaze onaj vic.
Kokoska-Peder-Kokoska-Peder.
U svakom slucaju Pink i sve sto on proizvodi je SRANJE!
alter.157corgan,
Jel vido neko novi spot od Smashing Pumpkins?
Takodje dal je neko chuo, isti?
Bash je ql, al 100% opicheno i drugachije.
Ne mogu se vishe ni alternativom smatrati...
B.
alter.158apostol,
Intervju sa članovima Prljavog Jama iz Guitar Worlda.
JoTzoqA
pjam.zipalter.159krsta,
Verovatno je vecina vas videlo na satelitskom kanalu VIVA novi spot
od Beastie Boys - Intergalactic.
Molio bih ako neko ima rechi od te pesme da poshalje !
KRLE
alter.160van.gogh,
ha...nabavio sam MOTHER LOVE BONE...pa josh orginal...;)
Dupli disk...ako neko zeli neku stavr nek javi pa da bacim u mp3
Mislim da sam jedan od retkih koj ima ovo...;))
stvari na disku su :
1. This is Shangrila
2. Stardog Champion
3. Holy Roller
4. Bone China
5. Come bite the apple
6. Stargazer
7. Heartshine
8. Captain Hi-Top
9. Man Of Golden Words
10.Capricorn Sister
11.Gentle Groove
12.Mr. Danny Boy
13.Crown Of Thorns
14.Thru Fade Awey
15.Mindshaker Meltdown
16.Half Ass Monkey Boy
17.Chloe Dancer/Crown Of Thorns
includes Bonus CD : ;))
Capricorn Sister (Shine version) * Lady Godiva Blues
Pa ako neko oce neshto nek se javi...;)
Dobio ja ovo direktno iz jebenih drzava...ovi nashi slepci ni ne
znaju o cemu se radi...;)
Aj'...
VaN.GoGH
alter.161apostol,
-> #160, van.gogh>ha...nabavio sam MOTHER LOVE BONE...pa josh orginal...;)
>Dupli disk...ako neko zeli neku stavr nek javi pa da bacim u mp3
>
>Mislim da sam jedan od retkih koj ima ovo...;))
Pre dosta vremena sam video taj dupli disk kod skca na par tezgi,
ali nisam hteo da ga kupim, pa sam uzeo kasetu, reko, ako je dobro,
da kupim disk... i nisam se neshto odushevio, jedino je Chloe
Dancer/Crown of Thorns neviđeno dobra stvar.
Bio je oridjinal, al' samo dve tezge su ga imale, i to je bilo u
vreme kad su bugari tek počeli sa hiperprodukcijom, pa je na tezgama
bilo i dosta originala.
JoTzoqA
alter.162van.gogh,
-> #161, apostolVA> Bio je oridjinal, al' samo dve tezge su ga imale, i to je
VA>bilo u vreme kad su bugari tek poceli sa hiperprodukcijom, pa
VA>je na tezgama bilo i dosta originala.
Niko im nije kriv sto su takvi slepci...jeb'ga drze neke
gluposti, a sto valja...ko ga jebe...ko zna man mozda je to ovaj
jebeni NEW WAVE...;)
alter.163corgan,
E JEL IMA NEKO POVECU SLIKU FOO FIGHTERS-a(moze i mala)AKO IMA NEK OSTAVI.VRLO
POTREBNA.
Unapred zahvalan...
Corgan
alter.164krsta,
Izashao novi album od Beastie Boysa "Helo Nasty".
Ima li neko rechi?
KRLE
alter.165dzim,
Jeli bilo ovdek ili negden drugden (Negden Drugden - shvecki fudbaler)
tekstova od Suede-ta ?
Ako nije, ne bi bilo na izmet...
alter.166l.tanja,
-> #165, dzim.> Jeli bilo ovdek ili negden drugden (Negden Drugden - shvecki fudbaler)
.> tekstova od Suede-ta ?
.> Ako nije, ne bi bilo na izmet...
Bilo je vec .. :)
Tekstovi nekih pesama sa albuma "Dog Man Star"
suede.txtalter.167dzim,
-> #166, l.tanja
<M> Tekstovi nekih pesama sa albuma "Dog Man Star"
Blagodarim.
alter.168corgan,
-> #165, dzimImam ja sa svih sve...
treba da ih prekucavam pa cu da ti shaljem na kashichicu,if you don't mind.
B.
P.S.:Imam i tab ako ti treba.Dodushe ne bash sve, ali ima stvari.
alter.169corgan,
Jel ima neko tab, od Smashing Pumpkins, sa Gish-a,"Bury me".
Do jaja pesma.
B.
alter.170noay,
ULTRA-POVOLJNO!!!
Prodajem polovno gitarsko pojacalo ROLAND (35W) sa efektima:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
short delay
long delay
flanger
chorus
+ GAIN (distorzija)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
cena:280DM
email: ivan_c@eunet.yu
tel: 3432-162 (traziti Ivana)
*********************************************************
2)
*********************************************************
Prodajem git. procesor ZOOM 505 (mozda i previse jeftino?!?!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
-24 efekta, moze 9 odjednom
-24 programa
-auto-hromatski stimer
8 vrsta distorzija, flanger, phaser, chorus, delay, hall, auto
wah...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
cena: 180 DM
email: ivan_c@eunet.yu
tel: 3432-162 (traziti ivana)
*********************************************************
alter.172goo.g,
Koncert SONIC YOUTH-a
14 februar Solun
Dan zaljubljenih
pozdrav,
G.
alter.173strale,
Nego sta nego IDEMO!!!
CHA
alter.174strale,
E G. bre mnogo siromasna, ova alter konferencija...
moracemo mi malo da edukujemo djecu...
CHA
alter.175sani.,
-> #173, strale}} Nego sta nego IDEMO!!!
Pusti ti Dema na miru..
alter.176sekirica.joe,
usmerite me na txtove crenberiza
thank you and goodbye.
alter.177bog.,
Da li ima neko textove od RadioHead?
Taj koji ima sve ce mu biti oprosteno,pa cak i kazne za parkiranje!
alter.178dzim,
-> #177, bog.
> Da li ima neko textove od RadioHead?
> Taj koji ima sve ce mu biti oprosteno,pa cak i kazne za parkiranje!
bilo ranije...
alter.179dzim,
-> #177, bog.
> Taj koji ima sve ce mu biti oprosteno,pa cak i kazne za parkiranje!
Ajd, ipak me interesuju te kazne za parkiranje...
...evo ti drugi i treci album...
rhead.raralter.180krimer,
-> #176, sekirica.joeKR> usmerite me na txtove crenberiza
KR> thank you and goodbye.
KR>
Vidi na www.lyrics.ch
Ovo vazi i za mnoge druge grupe - tu je VELIKA baza tekstova.
BTW da li neko zna neku adresu gde se mogu naci akordi domacih grupa?
alter.182kalypso,
-> #180, krimer> Vidi na www.lyrics.ch
> Ovo vazi i za mnoge druge grupe - tu je VELIKA baza tekstova.
Bilo nekad... Oprema im je zaplenjena, izgleda da ih čeka i
suđenje... Nisu obraćali pažnju na copyright.
alter.183sekirica.joe,
da li neko zna kada Pearl Jam krecu na evropsku turneju i kada
imaju koncert u Budapestu
alter.184dzim,
-> #183, sekirica.joe
> da li neko zna kada Pearl Jam krecu na evropsku turneju i kada
> imaju koncert u Budapestu
To te Pedja naterao da napishesh poruku?
alter.185bog.,
-> #184, dzim> To te Pedja naterao da napishesh poruku?
Jeste, o vidoviti Dzime!
alter.186bog.,
Spasite me,o ljudi, sa prvim i zadnjim albumom Cranberriesa!
PS.Dzim. Ovo me Srki naterao.
alter.187strale,
Dragi ljudi,
oko turneja ako ste na internetu, idite na sajt www.pollstar.com i
tu cete naci datume sigurno za poznatije bendove iliti vasu
ALTERNATIVU....
pozdrav
alter.188zla.tindza,
dal neko ima tekstove grupe 'Alice In Chains'
sa albuma 'DIRT' ?!
ako imate,
pliz txt,arj ili zip!
pozdrav,
Tijana
alter.189van.gogh,
-> #188, zla.tindzaVA>dal neko ima tekstove grupe 'Alice In Chains'
VA>sa albuma 'DIRT' ?!
A Tijana...konacno pocinjes da slusas pravu muziku... ;)
Bravo, bravo to je za jebenu pohValu... ;)
Ako...imam ja reci...al' mislim da ih imas ovdi negde...pa ti trazi.
;)
Aj'...
alter.190zla.,
-> #189, van.goghZL> A Tijana...konacno pocinjes da slusas pravu muziku... ;)
e,Miloshe...da si ti meni ziv zdrav i debeo...
;)
ZL> Ako...imam ja reci...al' mislim da ih imas ovdi negde...pa ti
ZL> trazi.
daj poshalji mi bre...
imam ja sve njihove textove al rar-ovane...a taj me program jebeno cima !
pozdrav,
T.
alter.191van.gogh,
-> #190, zla.VA>e,Miloshe...da si ti meni ziv zdrav i debeo...
VA>;)
VA>
VA>daj poshalji mi bre...
VA>imam ja sve njihove textove al rar-ovane...a taj me program
VA>jebeno cima !
ziv...nego sta, zdrav...tu i tamo, debeo...MORE BEER, i zaboravila
si da naglasis veseo Tijana...VESEO...ono kao bez toga NE MOZE
BRE...!...
E pazi ja tebi da ucinim jednu uslugu...;)
Posto kazes da imas rar-ovanO...ti lepo sa sezama skini taj rar
trebace ti...mislim za sutra, prekosutra i tako...
Aj'...ziva bila, DEBELA I VESELA...pa kad se nagojish blago nama da
te bacamo na razanj... ;)
alter.192strale,
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Prodajem elektricnu gitaru "Lead Star" nemacke proizvodnje sa
futrolom...
boja: crna
magneti: 2 humbecker-a (neck, bridge) i 1 single (middle)
prekidaci: za magnete (5 pozicija: bridge, bridge-middle, middle,
middle-neck, neck)
takodje ima i spliter za humbeckere (puniji/prazniji zvuk-pretvara
humbackere u single, tj iskljuci jedan...), tremolo
potenciometri: volume, tone (zajednicki)
gitara je u odlicnom stanju, cena 300DM fiksno
email: ivan_c@eunet.yu
tel:3432-162
********************************************************************
ULTRA-POVOLJNO!!!
Prodajem polovno gitarsko pojacalo ROLAND (35W) sa efektima:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
short delay
long delay
flanger
chorus
+ GAIN (distorzija)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
cena:250DM
email: ivan_c@eunet.yu
tel: 3432-162 (traziti Ivana)
********************************************************************
alter.193panco,
Znali neko na netu gde u Bgd-u mogu da se iznajme CD-ovi
grupe FrontlineAssembly ili pazare isti...?
alter.194strale,
uh, bas tuzno sto je ova konfa mrtva...
alter.195strale,
DAVID PAJO INTERVIEW
Stolen from http://www.shmooze.net/
>Shmooze<
"I try not to be too intellectual about music; intuition is where
it all comes
from," says David Pajo, ex-Slint bassist and currently one half of
Tortoise's
bass tandem, on the eve of Tortoise's European tour with Stereolab.
Just don't
let that get around, or a lot of music writers are going to have to
start
dreaming up new musical movements to fill their column inches, and
that windy
sound won't be the effluvia of last night's burrito, but the sound
of grandiose
pop theories deflating. Pop critic at large Simon Reynolds has
lately made a
career of making kindred souls of Too Pure bands and Chicago indie
groups,
posing "post-rock" as a fin de siŔcle deconstruction of popular
music squeezing
the disparate sounds of Mo Wax, Faust, Esquivel and My Bloody
Valentine together
in its rapidly multiplying tentacles. At least, to read articles
about bands
like Tortoise, Flying Saucer Attack, gastr del sol, Stereolab, Pram
and Laika in
high-end alternative music magazines like The Wire, you'd swear
that having a
Ph.D. in Music Theory with a dissertation on Stockhausen and John
Cage are
prerequisites to listening to any of this stuff in the first place.
Pajo, for
one, seems to think that writers of this ilk are just making the
whole post-rock
thing up.<p>
"To me, it's kind of a nonsensical term," contends Pajo. "It's like
a label that
could have been tagged on to anything I've done, really. Back when
I was in
Slint, they'd called us post-punk, and that doesn't mean anything,
either. I
guess it's okay if people need some kind of frame of reference, but
it doesn't
mean anything."<p>
That said, there does seem to be uncanny resemblance amongst bands
on Chicago
indie labels like Thrill Jockey (Tortoise, The Sea and Cake), Drag
City (Flying
Saucer Attack, Smog) and Kranky (Labradford, Jessamine) that have
morphed,
contorted, bent, cross-pollinated and otherwise transmogrified pop
into a many
splintered thing. Pajo accounts for these shared sensibilities by
pointing out
that "it's a tight little circle here. I mean, people bounce ideas
off each
other all the time and support each other, so it's inevitable that
there's gonna
be a lot of similarity." But he is at a bit more of a loss to
explain a
correlative post-rock phenomenom: that every time you read about a
band hyped as
post-rock, from Tortoise to even Palace, you seem to run across the
phrase,
"including former Slint member..." Like the Krautrock bands
trumpeted as the
godfathers of post-rock, Slint seems to be one of those bands
everyone has heard
of, but almost no one has actually heard. Pajo is perplexed and
maybe even a
little nonplussed by the propagation of the Slint legend.<p>
"I don't know," he puzzles. "I'm trying to figure that out myself.
I don't even
understand why people are so into it. I mean, I was into it at the
time, and I
think the music is good, but I didn't realize so many people liked
it they'll
come up and talk to me about it even now when we're touring. They
kinda put it
on a pedestal like it was this huge, mysterious thing, but it
wasn't really."
Tortoise represents a shift in aesthetics for Pajo; Slint was far
more abrasive
and jarring and less interested in melodic resolution of
instrumental tension.
But Tortoise is also an alter ego for its other players: Doug
McCombs plays bass
with Eleventh Dream Day, John Herndon drums for 5ive Style, and the
guiding
force behind Tortoise, John McEntire, drums for The Sea and Cake
and gastr del
sol, in addition to producing Stereolab and Come. The creative
restlessness
manifested by members of undergroundish bands playing in a
different and even
more underground band leads to stunning contrasts from album to
album. The last
thing I expected to hear from Tortoise after their Rhythm,
Resolutions &
Clusters album, in which tracks from their debut were remixed and
melted down by
Chicago indie kingpins like Steve Albini and Jim O'Rourke into a
continuous blur
of indistinct melodic hum, was their new album, Millions Now Living
Will Never
Die, an album whose tunefulness ranges from obscured to subtle to
sparkling.
"Well, we wanted to make a proper album," explains Pajo with
disarming
simplicity. "But I mean, we're never even sure what to expect. I
think the remix
album is a little more conceptual, and this is like, we actually
had songs." And
those songs can also be unexpectedly grand, indeed. "Glass Museum,"
even in its
title, recalls the sophisticated, polished sheen and melodic
seduction of Felt's
much overlooked instrumental album, Train Above The City, the vibes
warmly,
serenely rippling over the texture of the song like the placidly
expanding rings
precipitated by raindrops in a glassy pool. "Along The Banks of
Rivers" is
consummate pop noir, like Portishead's "Sour Times," and "Numb,"
with the beats
and pathos replaced by the mock ominousness of a skulking organ and
an echoey
guitar that flirts hard-boiled, Spillanish cheesiness the title may
signify it
as a tone poem for a midnight dip in concrete shoes. There's a
reason why this
sound has endured: it's the very sound of intrigue and the allure
of pop that,
like Portishead's, harbours guardedly more than it willingly
reveals.
As you would expect, those are simply the most obviously accessible
moments on
the album, but that's not to say Tortoise is especially concerned
with making
their music difficult or an acquired taste. Like so many artists
whose music
would suggest a rigorous aesthetic discipline, from Yo La Tengo to
Pram,
Tortoise is remarkably unself-conscious about their craft, going by
feel and by
ear. That is what makes each Tortoise record a document of its
moment and what
renders questions about future pop blueprints entirely moot.<p>
"I don't know if we know what we're doing now," laughs the
otherwise taciturn
Pajo. "It's totally open we don't have a formula or set of rules or
anything.
With Slint, it was always a collaboration of those people, and
that's the same
way it is now. That's the way it's been with any band any of us
have ever been
in. We just work on ideas that's about it. Things aren't really
plotted out. The
approach is intuitive, so it's open to anything. There's no telling
what we
might do next. In the beginning, people thought Tortoise was this
band with two
bass players and two drummers and an anti-guitar band, but now we
have guitar.
We're completely open to do whatever seems right at the time. I
don't think
we're gonna box ourselves in. I mean, we're gonna try to take
things further,
and we're always gonna try to incorporate things that are new to
us, but I can't
really judge. Maybe we'll do a singer-songwriter album next."<p>
The real masterpiece on Millions Now Living is "Djed" (pronounced
"jed"), a
20-minute opus that enfolds several different songs in an almost
symphonic
structure, that is, in the way DJ Shadow and DJ Krush digitally
compose
symphonies. "Djed" is composed of "movements," as it were, except
that whereas
symphonic movements are normally discrete and separated, here
there's no break
between them. Different parts fade into or are subsumed by the
rhythm tracks
they give birth to, which in turn spawn other motifs and sounds. At
some points,
the whole band plays as a rhythm section; at others, the rhythm
section carries
the melody. "Djed" sounds loose and intuitive, yet resolves into a
whole, but
while it's tempting to think of the song as a DJ symphony, Pajo
maintains that
the song's title is an unintended pun.<p>
"It's really weird, 'cuz when we thought of that name, we just
thought of it as
a name, and a lot of people interpreted it as 'DJ'ed,' and that the
song was
DJ'ed in three different parts and mixed together, but we hadn't
really
premeditated that or anything. Something like that is vaguely
affected by
DJ-ing, but not consciously. We just got together to work on music,
and we had
all these different ideas and rather than making that song three or
four
separate songs, we got the idea that it might be cool if we could
just put them
all together. There are three or four really distinct parts, and it
was just a
matter of linking them up and making it cohesive."<p>
Tortoise continues to bear audible traces of their influences, most
notably dub
("We're all pretty into dub. I think we're more influenced by the
way they use
the mixing board as an instrument.") and the Krautrock of Neu,
Faust and Can,
but one of the most striking things about Millions Now Living is
the paradox at
the heart of it it's so damned pretty! Stuff that is way too out
there for
"commercial alternative" radio, music that is hailed by critics as
avant garde
and is heralded as the most adventurous, forward-looking music
today from
Tortoise to Pram's wonky nursery music to Labradford's majestic,
swelling
cathedral pop is really very palatable, almost adult-oriented pop.
What are you
supposed to make of a cutting edge music that you could play for
your parents?
"Yeah, I've wondered about that, too," laughs Pajo, appreciating
the irony.
"Maybe we're getting old maybe I am, at least. It's kinda scary,
'cuz if my
parents liked something I was doing, that was always a sign that I
was doing
something wrong." Now it's a sign that you're doing something right
especially
when you consider that describing lounge music as anothe,soue
what's wrong? What's up? Yeah, it's weird.
I don't know, I guess I lost interest in a lot of stuff I used to
really like,
and I think a lot of stuff I used to do is pretty immature." Or it
may be the
logical upshot of punk becoming mainstream in the shape of Green
Day et al., not
to mention the homegrown, award-festooned Alanis Morrissette. When
hating
everything your parents stand for has become such domesticated,
good, clean fun
(Did you hear Anne Murray say, "Save me a spot in the moshpit,"
during the
Junos?), perhaps liking what your parents like is the kind of truly
subversive
pleasure that gif course, but
what we can definitelthrtn ore rafvon vavtoe greatest rediscove
on's comeback in the '80s a once despised instrument
that had so many negative connotations that everyone seemed to
forget how good
it actually sounded.
"Felt was a pretty underrated band," says Pajo. "Their stuff still
holds up. We
have this practice space where the Sea and Cake and 5ive Style also
practice,
and we get to hear a lot of bands practice in there, and it kinda
hit me then:
vibes are so nice they're so easy on the ears. Why have they been
away for so
alter.196strale,
nastavak:
"Felt was a pretty underrated band," says Pajo. "Their stuff still
holds up. We
have this practice space where the Sea and Cake and 5ive Style also
practice,
and we get to hear a lot of bands practice in there, and it kinda
hit me then:
vibes are so nice they're so easy on the ears. Why have they been
away for so
long?"
Fortunately, there will be plenty to remind you of the beauty of
the vibes when
Tortoise tours North America with the Sea and Cake and 5ive Style
in April,
including appearances at Lee's Palace in Toronto, April 25, and the
Cave in
Ottawa, April 29.
alter.197strale,
Ovo iznad je interview sa legendarnim likom takozvane post-rock
scene...to ce znati ovde verovatno 0.06% ljudi po mojim
proracunima, ali nikad nije kasno za dobru informaciju...
pozdrav svima
a specijalni pozdrav mom dragom prijatelju GOO.G
alter.198goo.g,
-> #197, stralespec otpozdrav za Straleta ...... 105 pa opet!!!
Najludji debeli post-rocker u gradu ++++> Strale ....> Sky Blue
alter.199strale,
Pa da pocnemo sa skolskim programom:
Prvi domaci zadatak:
band: Spacemen 3
album: Playing with fire
All Of My Tears
Lord it's so hot and I ain't got a lot
Don't need much but I ain't satisfied right now
I just want water I just want an ocean
An endless river to wash away all of my tears
Lord it's so hot and my heart's bleeding
Ain't been with you but it's you I'm needing right now
I just want water I just want an ocean
An endless river to wash away all of my tears
When your hot and lord how it's steaminh
You gotta go back to the river babe
I just want water I just want an ocean
An endless river to take me back to my shame
spacemen.jpgalter.200violent,
Reci od pesme "Loosing my favourite game" - Cardigans
Hvala
ByE
alter.201violent,
Reci od pesama "Headonism" - Skunk Anansie
"Smoke" - Natalie Imbruglia
alter.202milosavljevic,
-> #200, violent>> Reci od pesme "Loosing my favourite game" - Cardigans
Bilo je vec, al' ajde...
cardig.txtalter.203corgan,
Jel ima neko tekstove od UNKLE i Placebo?
B.
alter.204strale,
dosadno mi pa da posaljem koju sliku..
prvo genijalni LaBradford
alter.205strale,
labradfo.jpgalter.206strale,
areal M
areal_m.jpgalter.207strale,
po dresu
slika1.jpgalter.208strale,
i po ovom instrumentu poznacete ko su i odakle su
slika2.jpgalter.209strale,
toliko za sad...
pozdrav ljudima koji zalaze ovamo...
alter.210goo.g,
A sad genijalni THE SEA.....AND.....THE CAKE
slika.jpgalter.211goo.g,
....AND THE SEA AND CAKE
slika1.jpgalter.213disappearer,
uh, stvarno uzas...u ovoj konfi ne videh poruku vise od mesec dana...evo malo
da ozivim...tekstovi od My Bloody Valentine jednog od najlegendarnijih bendova
nove alternativne muzike....
albumi: "Loveless" i "Isn't Anything"
zanimljivost ;) : Kada su pitali Kevin Shields-a zasto su vokali u bendu tako
tihi u odnosu na muziku, on na to kaze: oni uopste nisu tihi za ljude koji
stvarno slusaju muziku. a, zbog bukvalno revolucije koju je ovaj chovek
napravio sa gitarom, ja kazem Kevine ti si bog!!! :)
pozdrav
mbv.zipalter.214disappearer,
slike "Labraford" - najmirnijeg benda na svetu
labrad.zipalter.215disappearer,
David Pajo
(ranije sam poslao interview)
pajo.jpgalter.216corgan,
Ako neko hoce da menja CD poslednji album Foo Fighters-a original za nesto...
Da chujem ponude...
pozdrav
Corgan
A.M.
alter.217corgan,
-> #216, corganDa ne bude zabune album se zove:The colour and the shape"