razno.526popovics,
-> #525, firus
▄- argumenata i treba da ne radi ništa. Možda jedino misliš da u
▄- tom slučaju ne bi bilo zgoreg da se vrati originalna
▄- definicija fonta.
Ne, ne... Ako u komandnoj liniji nema ništa, onda ( bar na mom računaru )
uzbe i zabrlja ekran, tako da se posle toga se ne može raditi ( može, ali na
slepo )...
P.S Pogledaću dokumentaciju i probati da napravim biblioteku...
razno.527firus,
-> #526, popovics> Ne, ne... Ako u komandnoj liniji nema ništa, onda ( bar na mom
> računaru ) uzbe i zabrlja ekran, tako da se posle toga se ne
> može raditi ( može, ali na slepo )...
Jedno MODE CO80 (kucano na slepo) bi svakako rešilo
problem, ali nema veze. U programu, kao što se da videti (i po
komentarima) iz sorsa, se u slučaju prazne komandne linije ništa
ne dešava, al' moguće je da sam poslao neku test verziju izvršnog
programa, pa evo da grešku (ako postoji) ispravim. Ista meta,
isto odstojanje (isti sors, ali nanovo kompajliran i testiran na
tri makine sa potpuno različitim karticama).
fonter.ziprazno.528sdanijel,
Ade neka neko posalje neki Dobar Telefonski Imenik !!!
Zahvalan sdanijel
razno.529cape,
Moze li neko da mi posalje dbase III + ?
Unapred hvala
Peca
razno.530noay,
Imam gadan problem sa windowsom 95
u zelji da undeletujem neki fajl...
dobio sam poruku da je windows spechio pristup nekim dos
komandama a da bi skinuo blokadu treba da ukucam lock
e sad u eindowsu su mi se izbrisali neki folfderi shta da radim
i kako da unlockujem program
razno.531tomak,
-> #530, noay> Imam gadan problem sa windowsom 95
> u zelji da undeletujem neki fajl...
> dobio sam poruku da je windows spechio pristup nekim dos
> komandama a da bi skinuo blokadu treba da ukucam lock
> e sad u eindowsu su mi se izbrisali neki folfderi shta da radim
> i kako da unlockujem program
Meni to nije uspelo da uradim (nisam puno ni pokušavao) u Winovom Dos
prozoru ili full-screen a može u čistom Dosu (recimo, 'restart the
computer in MS-DOS mode' i tada prvo lock ...).
razno.532retaliator,
Da li je neko radio u MAT LAB-u?Da li on moze da resava integrale i
dif.jednacine i koliko uspesno?Molim da mi neko odgovori na mail.
hvala.
razno.533kojai,
Treba mi sledece...
Pravi obican cutoff efekat pa me zanima na koliko da kratim sample?
U Fast Trackeru efekat 9xx sluzi za to, ali ne mogu da iskoristim posto radi
obrnuto! :(
Problem se javlja u sledecem: wave je npr 2 sec, a moj simer ide od 10 ms do
1 sec... Hocu da ga skratim za 1,5 sec! Ako to izmenim onda mi sample od 1 sec
sece ceo! :) Tako da mi tebe neka granica...
Ko je pravio nesto slicno neka javi!
razno.534stameni,
Potrebne su informacije o programiranju VGA i SVGA kartica.
Naročito me interesuje programiranje preko portova. Ako neko
ima neki help, ne bilo mu teško da pošalje. Ako toga ima ovde,
recite gde se nalazi.
razno.535dtadic,
-> #534, stameni>> Potrebne su informacije o programiranju VGA i SVGA kartica.
>> Naročito me interesuje programiranje preko portova. Ako neko
>> ima neki help, ne bilo mu teško da pošalje. Ako toga ima ovde,
>> recite gde se nalazi.
dosĐinfoĐ*.*
vgadoc3.zip 292k VGADOC 3: tehničke informacije o raznim VGA karticama
Korisna stvar (ne samo za programiranje VGA kartica) je i PC Games Programmers
Encyclopedia, ali mislim da je nema u direktorijumima, možda se nalazi u
nekoj od konferencija. Datoteka bi trebalo da se zove pcgpe.zip.
razno.536belobrkovic,
JAKO MI JE POTREBAN PROGRAM REUNION 5.02
AKO NEKO IMA NEKA MI JAVI VANJA 663-459
razno.537jujo,
-> #534, stameni# Potrebne su informacije o programiranju VGA i SVGA kartica.
# Narocito me interesuje programiranje preko portova. Ako neko
# ima neki help, ne bilo mu tesko da posalje. Ako toga ima ovde,
# recite gde se nalazi.
Saljem noviju verziju VGADOC-a. U pitanju je 4b i imas dokumentaciju
za sve kartice koje su se pojavile zakljucno sa Matrox Millenniumom.
yooyo:
P.S.: Ako hoces samo VGA modove..onda dobro prouci VGADOC, ali
ako hoces SVGA...onda ce ti trebati nekoliko video kartica
da bi testirao to sto napravis...
vgadoc4b.ziprazno.538stameni,
-> #537, jujo>> P.S.: Ako hoces samo VGA modove..onda dobro prouci VGADOC, ali
Pre svega se interesujem za VGA. Napravio sam jednu jako brzu
proceduru za crtanje tačke u 640x480x2.
razno.539kojai,
-> #538, stameniIskoristi onda tu brzu proceduru pa pisi u 640x480 u 256 boja, lepse je! :)
mov ah,4f02h
mov al,101h
int 10h
Ovo bi trebalo to da odradi...
Mozes i preko input/output adresa...
razno.540stameni,
-> #539, kojai>> Iskoristi onda tu brzu proceduru pa pisi u 640x480 u 256 boja, lepse je!
>> :)
Prema spisku interaptova, to je VESA mod, sa kojim trenutno
nisam u prilici da radim. Btw:
>> mov ah,4f02h
>> mov al,101h
>> int 10h
Umesto ah - ax, a al - bx :)
>> Mozes i preko input/output adresa...
Kako bi se ovo dalo izvesti? Na brzinu sam tražio u SWAG
biblioteci proceduru za 640x480x16 i nisam našao takvu da radi, a
preko portvoa nisam baš uspeo... A baš sam radio "po propisima".
Kao da mi pored spiska portova iz VGADOC fali još neko uputstvo.
Ako je neko zainteresovan da pregleda to dokle sam stigao, neka
javi da šaljem.
razno.541dule.n,
-> #540, stameni│ Kako bi se ovo dalo izvesti? Na brzinu sam tražio u SWAG
│ biblioteci proceduru za 640x480x16 i nisam našao takvu da radi, a
│ preko portvoa nisam baš uspeo... A baš sam radio "po propisima".
│ Kao da mi pored spiska portova iz VGADOC fali još neko uputstvo.
│ Ako je neko zainteresovan da pregleda to dokle sam stigao, neka
│ javi da šaljem.
└───────────────────
Skoro sam radio nešto slično za faks. Radio sam u 640x480x16 i to
baš preko portova. Evo ti ispod procedura u paskalu koja crta bar
na zadatim koordinatama sa zadatom bojom. Od nje sam i ja pošao,
zapravo sam je prepevao na asembler. Nadam se da ćeš se snaći.
Ako ti treba asemblerska procedura, javi. Ono što sam napravio je
bilo super-brzo. Zadatak je bio napraviti prozor kao u Win95, sa svim
njegovim glavnim funkcijama (razvlačenje, premeštanje, minimizacija,
maksimizacija, 3D efekti dugmića), i u njemu zvezda-petokraka :)))
koja treba da prati veličinu prozora.
procedure Pravougaonik (x1, y1, x2, y2 : word; boja : byte);
var
i, j, ofset1, ofset2 : word;
bajt1, bajt2, bajt : byte;
begin
if (x1 > x2) then Zameni(x1, x2);
if (y1 > y2) then Zameni(y1, y2);
ofset1 := x1 div 8; { ofset1 := shr x1, 3 }
bajt1 := $FF shr (x1 mod 8); { bajt1 := $FF shr (x1 and 7) }
ofset2 := x2 div 8; { ^ mnogo brza varijanta, a jos i }
bajt2 := $FF shl (7 - x2 mod 8); { posebno pogodna za asembler }
if (ofset1 = ofset2) then begin { Ako se tacke nalaze u }
bajt := bajt1 and bajt2; { okviru istog bajta!!! }
bajt1 := bajt;
bajt2 := bajt
end;
portw[$3CE] := $0205;
for i := y1 to y2 do begin
port[$3CE] := $08;
port[$3CF] := bajt1;
bajt := mem[baza : y_adr[i] + ofset1]; { obavezno citanje!!! }
mem[baza : y_adr[i] + ofset1] := boja;
port[$3CE] := $08;
port[$3CF] := $FF;
for j := (ofset1 + 1) to (ofset2 - 1) do begin
bajt := mem[baza : y_adr[i] + j];
mem[baza : y_adr[i] + j] := boja
end;
port[$3CE] := $08;
port[$3CF] := bajt2;
bajt := mem[baza : y_adr[i] + ofset2];
mem[baza : y_adr[i] + ofset2] := boja
end;
portw[$3CE] := $FF08;
portw[$3CE] := $0005
end; { Pravougaonik }
****************************************************************
U glavnom programu mora da se napuni niz y_adr ovako:
for i := 0 to 479 do y_adr[i] := 80 * i;
On predstavlja ofsete početaka svakog reda piksela. To se radi da
bi se izbeglo množenje u toku iscrtavanja.
Mislim da ja nisam koristio taj niz i da je sve i dalje radilo
dovoljno brzo (AMD 486/133MHz).
razno.543kojai,
-> #540, stameniJeste u pravu si umesto al je ax itd...
Nisam odavno radio nesto ovako pa sam pograsio! :)
razno.544stameni,
-> #541, dule.n>> baš preko portova. Evo ti ispod procedura u paskalu koja crta bar
>> na zadatim koordinatama sa zadatom bojom. Od nje sam i ja pošao,
>> zapravo sam je prepevao na asembler. Nadam se da ćeš se snaći.
Postoje neke stvari koje su mi manje jasne, a izgleda da je u
pitanju nepostojanje dobre literature za chip-level stuff. Nije mi
jasna upotreba portova 3CEh indeksa 02h i 08h, koji se obilato
koriste u primeru koji si poslao. Ja sam do sada radio prema
uputstvu iz jednog starog PC-ja, i evo dokle sam stigao (pažnja,
koga ne interesuje neka ne čita... a valjda ima nekog koga
interesuje :):
program PutPixel; { Rad u 640x480x16 }
{ Maksimalne kontrole "svega i svačega" u debug-fazi: }
{$B+,D+,F-,G+,I+,L+,N+,O-,R+,S+,V+,X+}
procedure SetDos; assembler;
asm
mov ax, $0003
int $10
end;
procedure ChGraph; assembler;
asm
mov ax, $0012
int $10
end;
procedure GetPort(portnr: word; index: byte; var value: byte);
{ Vraća sadržaj porta PORTNR na indeksu INDEX preko promenljive VALUE }
begin
port[portnr] := index;
value := port[portnr + 1]
end;
procedure SetPort(portnr: word; index, value: byte);
{ Postavlja port PORTNR indeksa INDEX na vrednost VALUE }
begin
port[portnr] := index;
port[portnr + 1] := value
end;
procedure SetGraph;
var
i: byte;
begin
ChGraph; { Pređi u grafički mod }
GetPort($3d4, $17, i);
i := i or $40;
SetPort($3d4, $17, i); { Isključi word mod }
GetPort($3c4, $04, i);
i := i or $08; { <-- Proveriti vrednost $08; videti poruku }
SetPort($3c4, $04, i) { Bitovi 0 i 1 registra $3c4 selektuju bit ravni }
end;
{ ----<cut>---- }
procedure plot;
{ Procedura iz debug faze }
begin
SetPort($3c4, $02, $04);
mem[$a000:$0000] := $aa { $aa = 10101010b }
end;
begin
SetGraph;
plot;
readln;
SetDos
end.
Mesto koje me zbunjuje označeno je u listingu. Tamo se u
registar 3C4h na indeks 04h upisuje 08h -- tako bi trebalo da
radi, bar teoretski:
3C4h index 4 (r/W): Sequencer: Memory Mode Register
3 (VGA Only) If set address bit 0-1 selects video memory
planes (256 color mode), rather than the
Map Mask and Read Map Select Registers.
U praksi ništa se ne iscrtava procedurom plot. Slučajno sam
utvrdio da kad se stavi 04h, onda procedura plot iscrtava četiri
tačke jednu do druge (zbog upisivanja AAh u video memoriju).
Od literature koristio sam VGADOC i PC #4.
>> Ako ti treba asemblerska procedura, javi.
Pošalji, možda može nešto da se nauči. Ja u sledećoj poruci
šaljem proceduru za 640x480x2 ;)
>> Zadatak je bio napraviti prozor kao u Win95, sa svim
>> njegovim glavnim funkcijama (razvlačenje, premeštanje, minimizacija,
>> maksimizacija, 3D efekti dugmića), i u njemu zvezda-petokraka :)))
>> koja treba da prati veličinu prozora.
Baš vas "maze" na tom vašem fakultetu. ;)
razno.545stameni,
Uz poruku je prikačen skup procedura za prilično brzo
iscrtavanje tačke u režimu 640 x 480 u dve boje ;) U pitanju su
procedure u Pascalu, ali su uglavnom pisane u inline assembleru,
da bi bile što je moguće brže. Rezervisana su mesta za druge
modove, pa je prilično pojednostavljeno usavršavati ovaj [pseudo]
modul. Komentari su poželjni i dobrodošli, pa -- izvol'te :)
pixel.pasrazno.546dule.n,
-> #544, stameni│ Pošalji, možda može nešto da se nauči. Ja u sledećoj poruci
│ šaljem proceduru za 640x480x2 ;)
└───────────────────
Evo ti te procedure na dnu. Zapravo, ima ih dve. Ova druga poziva prvu
koja iscrtava koja iscrtava jednu vertikalu sa određenim paternom.
A koliko puta je poziva - to zavisi od širine bara.
│ Baš vas "maze" na tom vašem fakultetu. ;)
└───────────────────
Težak je naš rudarski život. :)
Uteha je da je na taj način moglo da se osvoji i 40% poena za ispit. ;)
Ako te zanima da vidiš našta liči taj moj prozor-zvezda, javi pa da ti
bacim na mail ili ovde. Inače, ove dve procedure su istrgnute iz tog
programa.
;-------------------
Vertikala proc
mov bx,YK1
mov I,bx
mov dx,03ceh
mov al,08h
out dx,al
mov dx,03cfh
mov al,bajtmap
out dx,al
L01: mov ax,I
mov cx,80
mul cx
mov di,ax
xor bx,bx
mov bl,xofs
add di,bx
mov al,es:[di]
mov al,Boja
mov es:[di],al
inc I
mov bx,I
cmp bx,YK2
jle L01
ret
Vertikala endp
;---------------------------------
Bar proc ; ulazne veličine: XK1,YK1,XK2,YK2,Boja
mov dx,03ceh ; inicijalizacija porta
mov al,05h
out dx,al
mov dx,03cfh
mov al,02h
out dx,al
mov ax,XK1 ;računanje promenljivih za iscrtavanje bara
mov bl,8
div bl
mov polx1,al
mov levi,0ffh
mov cl,ah
mov al,levi
shr al,cl
mov levi,al
mov ax,XK2
mov bl,8
div bl
mov polx2,al
mov desni,0ffh
mov cl,7
sub cl,ah
shl desni,cl
mov al,polx1
cmp al,polx2
jne SIRI
mov bl,desni ;ako bar obuhvata samo 1 bajt (hor)
and levi,bl
mov bl,levi
mov bajtmap,bl
mov bl,polx1
mov xofs,bl
call Vertikala
jmp IZLAZ
SIRI: ;ako bar obuhvata najmanje 2 bajta (hor)
mov bl,levi ;levi i desni kraj bara
mov bajtmap,bl
mov bl,polx1
mov xofs,bl
call Vertikala
mov bl,desni
mov bajtmap,bl
mov bl,polx2
mov xofs,bl
call Vertikala
mov bl,polx1
inc bl
mov xofs,bl
L02: cmp bl,polx2
jge IZLAZ
mov bajtmap,0ffh
call Vertikala
inc xofs
mov bl,xofs
jmp L02
IZLAZ:
mov dx,03ceh ; deinicijalizacija porta
mov al,08h
out dx,al
mov dx,03cfh
mov al,0ffh
out dx,al
;portw[$3CE] := $0005
mov dx,03ceh
mov al,05h
out dx,al
mov dx,03cfh
mov al,00h
out dx,al
ret
Bar endp
;-------------------
razno.547stameni,
-> #546, dule.n>> Evo ti te procedure na dnu.
Thanks, biće pogledaTo (sad sam on-line).
>> Ako te zanima da vidiš našta liči taj moj prozor-zvezda, javi pa
>> da ti bacim na mail ili ovde.
Baci, ne bilo ti teško (mada si se, vidim, prilično namučio oko
tog "zadačića" -- to je bilo teško). cu!
razno.549dule.n,
-> #547, stameni│ Baci, ne bilo ti teško (mada si se, vidim, prilično namučio oko
│ tog "zadačića" -- to je bilo teško). cu!
└───────────────────
Zadačić jeste bio žakte, radilo se na njemu više dana, pre svega
zato što nisam imao baš iskustva u programiranju u asembleru.
Evo šaljem ti, nisam se uzdržavao od slanja zbog ne znam čega, već
rek'o da ne smaram ceo auditorijum oko nečega što ih ne interesuje
previše. Mada stvar, po mom skromnom mišljenju, uopšte ne izgleda
tako loše. Naći ćeš tu par nedostataka, čega sam potpuno svestan,
ali me brate mrzelo da ga više doterujem. E da, program startuj iz
DOS Prompta ili iz čistog DOS-a, a drajver za miša mora da ti bude
uključen.
prozor.ziprazno.550stameni,
-> #549, dule.n>> previše. Mada stvar, po mom skromnom mišljenju, uopšte ne izgleda
>> tako loše.
Stvarno, baš si dobro odradio zadatak. Mislim da ću imati šta
da naučim iz njega.
razno.551emajsijuen,
-> #549, dule.n│ Zadacic jeste bio zakte, radilo se na njemu vise dana, pre svega
│ zato sto nisam imao bas iskustva u programiranju u asembleru.
│ Evo saljem ti, nisam se uzdrzavao od slanja zbog ne znam cega, vec
│ rek'o da ne smaram ceo auditorijum oko necega sto ih ne interesuje
│ previse. Mada stvar, po mom skromnom misljenju, uopste ne izgleda
│ tako lose. Naci ces tu par nedostataka, cega sam potpuno svestan,
│ ali me brate mrzelo da ga vise doterujem. E da, program startuj iz
└─────────────────────────────────────────
Odlicno si obavio posao :) Svaka cast. BTW, jeste li programce morali
da pravite bas u ASM-u, ili u bilo cemu ?
Pozdrav, Vlada...
razno.552noay,
Da li postoji mogutjnost da se screenovi iz igara koje rade pod
windowsom <95> grabuju,i kako koji program ..itd?
razno.553dule.n,
-> #551, emajsijuen│ Odlicno si obavio posao :) Svaka cast. BTW, jeste li programce morali
│ da pravite bas u ASM-u, ili u bilo cemu ?
└───────────────────
O, pa naravno, morali smo u asembleru. Ne bi bilo "zanimljivo"
korišćenjem nekog višeg programskog jezika. %)
Hvala na komplimentu. :)
razno.554emajsijuen,
-> #552, noay│ Da li postoji mogutjnost da se screenovi iz igara koje rade pod
│ windowsom <95> grabuju,i kako koji program ..itd?
└───────────────────────────────────────────
Print Screen --> Start
> Programs
> Accessories
> Paint > Edit > Paste > Save as
Pozdrav, Vlada...
razno.555sljubisic,
Ima li nekog ovde ko je pisao programe za vodjenje _deviznog_
knjigovodstva?
(ili zna nekog ko jeste :)
razno.556popovics,
-> #555, sljubisic
▄- Ima li nekog ovde ko je pisao programe za vodjenje _deviznog_
▄- knjigovodstva?
Ja ti tu ne mogu pomoći, ali bih te molio da mi objasniš u čemu je
razlika između deviznog i normalnog knjigovodstva...
razno.557jujo,
Otvorena je grupa DemoScena.
Ideja je da se u grupi skupljaju ideje, razmenjuju sorsevi,
testiraju demoi, introi, preslusavaju modovi, kritikuju coderi...
Naravno... ovde su dobrodosli i vlasnici Amiga, C-64, ...
... svih platformi na kojima DemoScena postoji...
Za uclanjenje mail me...
yooyo:
razno.558olio,
-> #557, jujo> Otvorena je grupa DemoScena.
Moze uclanjenje?
razno.559jujo,
-> #558, olio# > Otvorena je grupa DemoScena.
#
# Moze uclanjenje?
Moze..moze...
yooyo:
razno.560qpele,
Moze li neko da mi objasni kako da na web site postavim brojac pristupa
strani ?
razno.561kiki,
-> #560, qpele> Moze li neko da mi objasni kako da na web site postavim brojac pristupa
> strani ?
Ne znam da li moze da ti pomogne ali nije na odmet da pogledas. ;)
Odes na www.beotel.yu/users/users.html i medju ostalim opcijama imas
i opciju: "Zelite li svoj brojac?". Tamo ces naci (valjda) ono sto
te zanima u vezi toga. Cinimi se da ima ispisan programski red koji
se ubacuje u Html, ali nisam siguran.. davno sam bio tamo.
Pozdrav
K I K I
razno.562milosh.zorica,
-> #561, kikiSamo povećavaj vrednost neke promenljive za jedan, kad se u<ita
strana i eto filozofije. I onda to ispiši na ekran i...
Poz, Miloš!
razno.563jjerry,
-> #562, milosh.zoricaOK je to,ali chovek je mislio (verovatno) na one ql grafichke
brojache.
Btw. na www.beotel.yu ,postoji uputstvo za postavljanje
brojacha,istog kao BeoTel-ov na svoju stranu.Kome treba brojach nek
potrazhi tamo..
razno.564mihailod,
"The code you never write has no bugs"
Brian Croll, director of Solaris product
marketing at Sun Microsystems
razno.565kojai,
Da li je neko nekad probao da radi sa ovim OpenGL ili Direct Voodoo 3D
operacijama... Ima jako dobrih stvari za pravljenje 3D igara i lako se koristi!
Problem je samo masina tj. Voodoo! :(
Stavio sam u prostor vise objekata(lopti, blokova, 2D objekata) i zadao ugao
gledanja... Medjutim treba mu bas dobro vreme da to prikaze! Tako da ako bih
zeleo da pokrecem predeo na strelice(ne daj boze na misu) gledali bi se
slajdovi! Zanima me da li bi ovo Voodoo odradio bez problema?
Pozdrav!
razno.566jjerry,
-> #565, kojai Ako koristish OpenGL biblioteku za Windowse,onda je vrlo moguce da
ce doci do ubrzanja (verovatno zhesceg :),ali ako ne,onda cesh
morati da se pozabavish teshkom optimizacijom..
razno.567milosh.zorica,
Na web-u se pojavio jedan ;asopis za programere. Autori tog
;asopisa su sezamovci vule., milosh.zorica, popovics i pokretno
smetalo darth.vader. :asopis se nalazi na adresi
www.sezampro.yu/~zmilosh. Obiđite i kažite utiske.
Poz, Miloš!
razno.568jujo,
-> #567, milosh.zorica# Na web-u se pojavio jedan ;asopis za programere. Autori tog
# ;asopisa su sezamovci vule., milosh.zorica, popovics i pokretno
# smetalo darth.vader. :asopis se nalazi na adresi
# www.sezampro.yu/~zmilosh. Obidite i kazite utiske.
#
#
# Poz, Milos!
Ruzno, nezaimljivo i dosadno..
yooyo:
razno.569guta,
Potrebni programeri za rad na odredjeno vreme (3-24 meseca)
u inostranstvu (Zapadna Evropa).
Obezbedjena radna dozvola.
Neophodno iskustvo u jednom ili vise alata (oblasti):
1. MS Visual C++, Optima++, Borland C++, Delphi i C++ Builder (MFC, OWL, VCL)
2. Sybase (Powersoft) PowerBuilder, Jaguar
3. Oracle, Informix, Uniface, Magic
4. Access, Visual Fox, CA Visual Objects
4. Sybase SQL Server, Oracle Server, SOLID Server, DB/2 Server...
5. Microsoft Visual Basic, Visual Basic for applications
6. Asembler za Intel (80x86) procesore
7. Microsoft Visual Java, Symantec Visual Cafe, SUN Solaris Java
8. DirectX API, ActiveX, Win32 API, ODBC, HTML, Dynamic HTML...
9. Administracija Windows NT, Mac, Novell... mreza
10. Drugi alati, programski jezici
Opsti obavezni/pozeljni uslovi:
- Odlicno poznavanje konverzacijskog i pisanog engleskog jezika
- Bez prepreka za dobijanje radne dozvole (krivicno gonjenje, vojna obaveza...)
- Pozeljno poznavanje nemackog jezika
- Pozeljna vozacka dozvola B kategorije ili internacionalna dozvola
Prijave za intervju sa biografijom (CV) na srpskom, engleskom
ili nemackom jeziku dostaviti na:
Adresa: MCS d.o.o. Bulevar Mihaila Pupina 6 (bivsi CK)
III sprat / kancelarija 150
11070 Novi Beograd
Email: dmm@eunet.yu ili guta@sezam.co.yu
Telefon: (011) 627 813 (radnim danom 09-17h)
Osobe za kontakt: Simic ili Manojlovic
Uz uobicajeni CV obavezno dostaviti i prilozeni upitnik,
kompletno popunjen. Nepotpune prijave ce usporiti obradu.
profil.ziprazno.570popovics,
-> #568, jujo
| Ruzno, nezaimljivo i dosadno..
| yooyo:
Čak se i jedan od autora ( ja :) ) sa tim slaže...
razno.571jjerry,
-> #567, milosh.zorica Prvo..jel' to sezampro nije radio danas ? Nisam mogao ni na shta
drugo da odem sem na sezampro.yu. A btw. o kakvim vi to temama
pishete tamo ? I inache,mnogo treba i tebi i meni da bismo bili
neki programeri pa ne znam na koju foru pishete programerski
chasopis,jer,po meni,nisi programer ako znash sintaksu jezika...
Ne odnosi se to samo na tebe,tek poneko ovde mozhe da se nazove
"programerom".
Poz.
razno.572kojai,
Pravi neki program za knjigovodstvo pa me zanima sledece...
Da li neko moze da mi napise sta bi sve trebalo da imam u programu?
Znaci koje sve opcije... Nisam se sretao sa ovakvom vrstom programa pa me
zanima sta je sve korisniku neophodno!
Moram priznati da programi za Auto skole i Domove zdravlja nisu nalik ovome! :)
Znaci malo opsirnije...
Moze i neka verzija nekoga programa da ga pogledam, ako nije problem, prosto
pravim po narudzbini!
Pozdrav!
razno.573tile,
Program za instalaciju softvera na srpskom jeziku.
==================================================
EPP PORUKE:
Vi radite PRAVE stvari, mi (Bad Company) cemo uraditi ono drugo!
Vi raidite za njih, mi (Bad Company) radimo za Vas.
Ovaj program NE KOSTA NISTA :)
================
:) SVE je na srpskom (alerti, dijalog boksovi ... )
:) Interni Dearhiver.
:) Instalacija na vise disketa (do 10)
:) Progress Bar
:) Help (startuje 'SETUP.HLP' - sami ga napisite)
:) Logo Screen - Background Image (sami ga nacrtajte)
:) Multimedia
- Muzika / *.MID (sami ga 'odsvirajte)
- Film / *.AVI ( Samo za CD ROM verziju - sami ga 'snimite')
Mada je podosta toga konfigurabilno, uglavnom sve obavite Vi kao
programer,
popunjavajuci vrednosti u 'SETUP.INI'
Korisniku ostaje samo da Pritisne <Intaliraj>, ili da izabere:
- Ciljni direktorijum
- Ciljnu programsku grupu
- komponente koje zeli/ ne zeli
INFO
- Naziv programa koji se instalira
- Kratak opis programa
- Verzija
- Copyright
- Copyright tekst (npr. Sva prava zasticena...)
- Pripadajuca ikona
WINDOWS
- Izbor (ili kreiranje) Destination Direktorijuma
- Izbor (ili kreiranje) Destination Progman grupe
KOMPONENTE
Instaliranje vise nezavisnih komponenti.
- Naziv komponente
- Potreban prostor na disku
- Instalirati? (Check Box)
- Pripadajuci fajlovi
(ev. poddirektorijume kreira ako vec ne postoje)
- Azurira Program Menager (opciono)
- Azurira Win.ini, System.ini, Autoexec.bat (Sve opciono,
naravno)
Specijalna, nevidljiva, komponenta koja (opciono) instalira
fajlove neophodne/potrebne za rad vise komponenti (npr. BDE,
DLL u SYSTEM ili WINDOWS dir...)
A SADA NEDOSTATCI!
:( 1. Arhiver je nestandardni (nije tragican, dapace, ali nije
sampion)
:( 2. Sam program za instalaciju zauzima dosta mesta na disketi
(23o KB)
:( 3. Ne podrzava Multiple Volume Archive (za sada)
:( 4. Multimedia Files fiksnog formata ( MID, BMP, AVI)
:( 5. Ogranicen broj instalacionih disketa - 10 :)))))
:( 6 - 106. Vas komentar na kome sam NEIZMERNO ZAHVALAN
UPUTSTVO :
Prilozenu arhivu raspakujte u poseban direktorijum (samo ne TEMP)
ili na disketu
i startujte install.exe.
KONTAKT:
Zainteresovani se mogu javiti na mail (otvorena grupa YUINSTALL).
U grupi mogu :
- 'skinuti' i Compression Tools te tako eksperimentisati -
testirati,
a boga mi i koristiti program za instalaciju.
- 'Skinuti' Novu verziju (kad stigne)
- Naruciti hladno pivo (Here Comes a Summertime :( )
E_Mail (lici na onu iz zaglavlja poruke): Tile@Sezam.Co.YU
demodisk.ziprazno.574bolep,
kako da odgovarajucoj kontroli Visual Basica preko koda te ili neke
druge kontrole u zavisnosti od odredjenih uslova dodelim neku
sliku.Problem mi je sto kod ne prima path do slike, odbija kose
crte. Kako to da resim. Hvala.
razno.575dr.grba,
-> #572, kojai>> Pravi neki program za knjigovodstvo pa me zanima sledece...
>> Da li neko moze da mi napise sta bi sve trebalo da imam u programu?
>> Znaci koje sve opcije... Nisam se sretao sa ovakvom vrstom programa pa me
>> zanima sta je sve korisniku neophodno!
Pokušaj da od nekoga ko je blizak računovodstvu uzmeš knjigu
jugoslovenskih računovodstvenih standarda (JRS). Knjigovodstveni
softver je opisan u JRS 33.
I kad već krećeš u taj posao, prijateljski savet: mani se ispunjavanja
muzičkih želja. To radi kada bude gotov obavezni deo programa, onaj
koji dovodi korisnika do kompletne operative kou zakon traži. A posle
ga šminkaj do mile volje.
razno.576banga,
-> #575, dr.grba> I kad već krećeš u taj posao, prijateljski savet: mani se
> ispunjavanja muzičkih želja. To radi kada bude gotov obavezni
> deo programa, onaj
Neverovatno si u pravu. Knjigozezalicu sam uradio (i dan danas još radi)
davne 1971-ve (nisam pogrešio godinu, da ne kažem deceniju :)
razno.577kojai,
-> #576, banga>> Neverovatno si u pravu. Knjigozezalicu sam uradio (i dan danas jos radi)
>> davne 1971-ve (nisam pogresio godinu, da ne kazem deceniju :)
Ajde onda budi ljubazan pa mi posalji barem neki deo u EXE formatu posto sam
ja napravio kostu, ono sve osnovno u Turbo Viziji samo mi jos trebaju neke
zezalice! Bio bih te veoma zahvalan, posto ni sam ne znam sta sve treba
staviti u taj program!
Btw. ovaj program ce biti odliiiican kada se uradi! Ono najbolji za DOS!
Pozdrav!
razno.578guta,
Posle oko 16 godina postojanja, Borland International je promenio ime,
i sada se zove:
INPRISE Corporation
Slogan: Integrating the enterprise (odatle i ime)
razno.579kojai,
predlazem da se otvori grupa koja bi se bavila Auto Lispom posto mislim da
program sve vise i vise nalazi primenu kod ljudi koji se bave kompovima!
razno.580jujo,
-> #579, kojai# predlazem da se otvori grupa koja bi se bavila Auto Lispom posto mislim
# da program sve vise i vise nalazi primenu kod ljudi koji se bave
# kompovima!
A ja mislio da je AutoLISP umro...kakva zabluda... ;))))
yooyo:
razno.581kojai,
-> #580, jujo>> A ja mislio da je AutoLISP umro...kakva zabluda... ;))))
Da li je?
razno.582udav,
-> #572, kojai
>> Da li neko moze da mi napise
>> sta bi sve trebalo da imam u programu?
Eeeee ... al' si ga definisao :) ... pa kazi za STA zapravo u knjigodstvu, za
SZR, STR, PP, SUR i reci cu ti otprilike koje knjige treba da budu sadrzane,
a za ostale detalje ces morati sam da se snadjes ...
-------------------------------------
>> Moze i neka verzija nekoga programa da ga pogledam,
:)))))))))) ...
E prijatelju, to sto si rekao je sa stanovista ljudi koji te programe prodaju
i prave je "vrlo cudno" ...
Ako bi ti neko dao takav .exe fajl (a cisto sumljam da bi i ukoliko neko nesto
baci to nesto bilo imalo funkcionalno) to bi znacilo da bi morao da ga da
potpuno ogoljenog, bez ikakve zastite, ti bi kuci mogao da drukas kopije u
koliko hoces primeraka ... ;) ...
Poslusaj zato moj savet :
1. Program radi ili u clipperu, ili u fox-u (tertium non datur), mislim da bi
bilo vrlo avanturisticki, a i naporno ukoliko to pokusavas u pascalu ili c-u
...
2. Nadji a) Iskusnog knjigovodju
b) finansijskog policajca
... i radi to u timu sa njima, ukoliko pokusavas nesto iz "literature" imaces
dosta problema kasnije jer ces program morati cesto da menjas ...
razno.583udav,
-> #576, banga
>> davne 1971-ve (nisam pogresio godinu, da ne kazem deceniju :)
Hmmmmm ... 1971 !!! ... ja sam rodjen 1980 !!! :)
Na kojoj platformi si to uradio ???
Koji si programski jezik koristio ???
Sta je uopste program i mogao da radi TADA ???
razno.584udav,
-> #575, dr.grba
>> Knjigovodstveni
>> softver je opisan u JRS 33.
Eeee i na tarabi pise ... pa kad probas, ono netje ... ;)
Sta je sve predvidjeno tim propisima ...
Prvo, kao svaki program bi trebalo da verifikuje RUJP (ili bese trzisna ... ne
secam se nija vise ...), sto je s obzirom na kvalifikovanost kadra (bar gde ja
zivim) cista smejuria ... :)
Drugo, cini mi se da postoje i neke odredbe o tome da u programu ne sme da
postoji deo za izmene (jer su naravno uz to moguca i izvesna namestanja) polja
... :) ... smajl, sta vise reci ...
Nisam siguran da li dam pogodio dokument ... ali svejedno ... :) ... sve su to
smejurije, kao i celokupno nase knjigovodstvo u ovom trenutku ...
razno.585ab.comp,
-> #583, udav ==> Sta je uopste program i mogao da radi TADA ???
Pravio je malu decu :).
Pozdrav
█ █ █ █
▄▄█ █ █▄▄ █▄▄
razno.586kojai,
>> Knjigovodstveni
>> softver je opisan u JRS 33.
Ok nasao sam knjizicu... Takodje sam nasao program za knjigovodstvo, malo
stariji, ali detaljno objasnjen i sa mnostvom opcija...
Inace da ne pokusavam program da uradim u pascalu ili c-u je smesno, posto
imam platformu koju sam nekada radio pod turbo vizijom koja barata sa bazama,
svopuje po disku itd... Tu su i momentalni sortovi i ostalo...
Sve se moze kad se hoce...
Inace uporedo radim program u delphiu i VC 5.0(ako uspem :)), gde je mnogo
lakse posto koristim paradoxove baze, a program je mizerija uraditi...
Bedno je sto 90+ % knjigovodja koristi slabije masine na kojima ne sljaka
95-ica, posto rad i pravljanje pod windowsom znatno, ZNATNO :), olaksava!
Pozdrav!
razno.587banga,
-> #583, udav> Na kojoj platformi si to uradio ???
> Koji si programski jezik koristio ???
> Sta je uopste program i mogao da radi TADA ???
- Honeywell-200 6-tobitni, 500kHz(možda i 200 ne sećam se), 24kB, 5TD
(7kanalni 556bit/inču), čitač kartica i štampač
- Cobol, Assembler (Easycoder)
- Sve što i sada, sem interaktivnog rada, znači stiktno batch processing.
"Mali" problem je bio što mašina nije imala diskova samo tape uređaje,
znači strogo sekvencijalna obrada, kao i veličina same baze.
Baza je krajem godine imala 12-14 koturova, svaki kotur po 2400 feet-a,
znači oko 190-220 MB. Slogovi (item-i) baze, odnosno knjigovodstvene
stavke su bili čisto numerički dužine 90 karaktera (nije bajtova jer je
6-bitna mašina :)
Paket je obuhvatao samo finansijsko knjigovodstvo, a u njemu:
- Održavanje kontnog plana
- Održavanje deviznih kurseva
- Knjiženje dinarskih i deviznih naloga za nekih 30-tak različitih valuta
- Knjiženje "crnog" i "crvenog" storna
- Vođenje Glavne gnjige
- Analitika kupaca i dobavljača
- Automatsko zatvaranje stavki u okviru naloga
- Automatsko zatvaranje naloga
- Preračun kursnih razlika kod promene planskog kursa
- Obračun kamata
- Obračun troškova po obračunskim jedinicama
- Periodični obračuni i završni račun
- Formiranje početnog stanja po završnom računu za sledeću godinu
1974 je zbog uvođenja OOUR-a jedinstveni sistem razbijen (omogućio je
nezavisni obračun do 98 OOUR-a, kao i cele firme)
1980 je sistem portovan isto u Cobol-u na neki IBM monstrum (u to vreme :),
gde i dan danas radi u manje više istom obliku.
Ovo je zasluga onih koji su preuzeli sistem od mene i nisu želeli da
rizikuju da sekvencijalnu obradu bitno izmene, mada su je radili na
diskovima (ako se nije nešto bino izmenilo, čisto sumnjam, u zadnjih 6
godina koliko me plaćaju da ne idem na posao :)
Najveći problem kod portovanja su bile asemblerske rutine, mada dobro
dokumentovane.
Sećam se da mi je za jednu trebalo 2 dana da shvatim šta tačno radi,
mada sam je ja pisao.
razno.588dr.grba,
-> #582, udav>> 2. Nadji a) Iskusnog knjigovodju
>> b) finansijskog policajca
>>
>> ... i radi to u timu sa njima, ukoliko pokusavas nesto iz "literature"
>> imaces dosta problema kasnije jer ces program morati cesto da menjas ...
A ako radiš sa njima, nećeš morati da menjaš (((:
Šalu na stranu, učešće dobrog knjigovođe u pisanju programa može
da bude od ogromne pomoći. Idealno bi bilo provesti sa knjigovođom
godinu dana, od prenosa početnog stanja u novu godinu do izrade
bilansa sledeće godine i prenosa novog početnog stanja, da se krug
zatvori. Jeste teško, zametno, dosadno, ali je način da se krene u
posao.
Rekao sam ti već: ako ne shvataš ovaj posao obiljno, nemoj da gubiš
vreme baveći se ovom vrstom softvera.
Programski jezik je apsolutno irelevantan. Skoncentriši se na
celokupnost i ispravnost projekta, a posle piši u GWBASIC-u, ako
treba. Mnogo važno.
Među finansijskim policajcima ne treba tražiti savetnika - barem
je rizik veći, pošto većina njih nema blagog pojma sa knjigovodstvom.
Pre racije im objašnjavaju koji detalj treba da love i sa čim je
povezan, kako bi mogli da čačkaju unakrsno. Službena ovlašćenja
ih čine "strašnim", ali ako imaš veće zube od njih, mogu da ti
pljunu pod prozor, pod uslovom da si ispravno uradio posao.
Ovo govorim iz iskustva. Ja, koji o knjigovodstvu znam koliko
i o stelarnoj mehanici, sam uspeo da ulovim ekipu iz finansijske
policije da ne umeju da izvedu najgluplju internu kalkulaciju za
maloprodaju i da ne umeju od toga da izvedu šemu kontiranja. A pre
toga se pokazalo da ne umeju da shvate kako to da softver može da
bude osnovno sredstvo. Jednom prilikom... ali, bolje da ne lajem.
razno.589dr.grba,
-> #584, udav>> Prvo, kao svaki program bi trebalo da verifikuje RUJP (ili bese trzisna
>> ... ne secam se nija vise ...), sto je s obzirom na kvalifikovanost kadra
>> (bar gde ja zivim) cista smejuria ... :)
Onaj ko nije u stanju da razdvoji formu od suštine, ne treba da se
bavi programiranjem.
>> Drugo, cini mi se da postoje i neke odredbe o tome da u programu ne sme da
>> postoji deo za izmene (jer su naravno uz to moguca i izvesna namestanja)
>> polja ... :) ... smajl, sta vise reci ...
Ne shvatam šta tu ima smešno. Pogledaj šta u JRS 33 piše o postupcima
izmene stavki u knjigovodstvu. Seti se da svaka izmena u glavnoj
knjizi mora da bude praćena odgovarajućim dokumentom. Konzistentnost
glavne knjige može da se čuva na nekoliko načina, a izmene ispod žita
ne predstavljaju jedan od takvih načina.
>> Nisam siguran da li dam pogodio dokument ... ali svejedno ... :) ... sve
>> su to smejurije, kao i celokupno nase knjigovodstvo u ovom trenutku ...
Zakon o računovodstvu možda jeste smejurija, ali to je stvar o kojoj
možemo da pričamo u nekom drugom kontekstu. Ovde se povela reč o tome
kako doći do informacija dovoljnih da bi čovek, po svojoj nameri,
napisao program za vođenje poslovnih knjiga.
razno.590dr.grba,
-> #586, kojai>> Bedno je sto 90+ % knjigovodja koristi slabije masine na kojima ne sljaka
>> 95-ica, posto rad i pravljanje pod windowsom znatno, ZNATNO :), olaksava!
Olakšava tebi, a treba da olakšava njima.
Interesantno je da pokušaš da napraviš program ove namene koji radi
na Win95, jer je tržišete nezasićeno tim tipom programa. Ali, misli
na nekoliko stvari:
- time svesno sužavaš potencijalno tržište;
- dominira đubre od hardvera na kome Win95 ponekad radi neispravno,
ruši se itd. Ljudi krkaju sto različitih softvera na mašinu, pa se
onda žale da je kriv Bil Gejts.
Zapravo, pokušaj da oceniš šta te čeka kada budeš imao gotov proizvod
koji si prodao, a potom moraš da podržiš korisnika kada bude imao
probleme.
Iskreno da ti kažem: *jedini* Windows program koji bih koristio za
računovodstvo je onaj koji radi u klijent-server okruženju i podržava
transakcioni model, pod uslovom da je po ceni konkurentan sa programom
koji sada koristim.
Razmisli i o ovome: prosečan knjigovođa unosi par hiljada brojeva
dnevno u maske programa. Koliko mu *stvarno* treba miš ili
event-driven interfejs?
ALi, postoji i druga, pozitivna strana: objektni model je danas lak za
primenu. To može da donese mnogo dobrog korisniku, pre svega u ime
fleksibilne upotrebe programa. U martovskom broju englskog časopisa PC
Pro postoji CD na kome se nalazi program QuickBooks Accounting (demo),
Windows program koji zadovoljava sve zakonske regulative tokova robe i
novca u Velikoj Britaniji. Program je remek-delo i treba ga videti.
Može da ti donese stotinu ideja: potraži ga.
razno.591udav,
-> #590, dr.grba
>> Interesantno je da pokusas da
>> napravis program ove namene koji radi
>> na Win95,
Ja sam napravio nesto, nepotpuno, i cisto probe radi u MS Visual Fox-u 5.0 ...
svi pogledaju, kazu "lepo je" i vrate se na DOS (cak sam napravio i da
delimicno i DOS verzija i VFox koriste istu bazu, al' uzalud) ...
Nemuguce je napraviti program u grafickom rezimu koji bi omogucio brzi rad
nego u tekstualnom (sto si ti naravno lepo primetio) ...
DOS ima da caruje u knjigovodstvu jos duuuuugo vremena ...
razno.592udav,
-> #589, dr.grba
>> >>Prvo, kao svaki program bi trebalo da verifikuje RUJP (ili bese trzisna
>> >> ... ne secam se nija vise ...),
>> >> sto je s obzirom na kvalifikovanost kadra
>> >>(bar gde ja zivim) cista smejuria ... :)
>> Onaj ko nije u stanju da razdvoji formu od sustine, ne treba da se
>> bavi programiranjem.
Pravo da ti kazem Grbo, neeeeeemam poooooooojma kakve veze ima pitanje
sustine/forme u vezi kontrole ovlascenog organa nad mojim program i nacina na
koji programiram ... :)
---------------------------------------
>> Ne shvatam sta tu ima smesno.
Pa smesno je to sto bazu mozez da menjas iz hiljadu razlicitih programa koji
nemaju vezu sa tvojim ... :) ... zasto onda da i tvoj nema tu opciju ...
Naravno ... ima tu jedno "ali" koje se ogleda na tome da bi bilo moguce u
program ugraditi opciju kripcije/dekripcije koja bi "u potpunosti" zastitila
bazu od srednje obrazovanih korisnika, dok bi vestiji programeri i dalje mogli
da spekulisu ...
Naravno, ne postoji ni JEDAN JEDINI razlog koji bi recimo mene naterao da to
uradim ...
Najbolje bi bilo da se zakonodavstvo za to pobrinilo i ubacilo takvo upustvo u
pravila o programu ...
---------------------------------------
>> Seti se da svaka izmena u glavnoj
>> knjizi mora da bude pracena odgovarajucim dokumentom.
Eeeeee Grbo, nista se ne mora u zivotu sem da se umre ...
----------------------------------------
>> a izmene ispod zita ne predstavljaju jedan od takvih nacina.
Hmmm ... ne bih sada da detaljisem&filozofiram u vezi tih izmena i rada izpod
zita ... ali to je jedini nacin da jedno malo preduzece uspe na trzistu ...
Nego, kad smo vec ovde, pazi sta sam video u Grckoj, tamo SVI kupuju program
od FINANSIJSKE (bar koliko sam ja razumeo tog Grka gde sam kupovao skener),
tako da SVI imaju isti program ...
I sam mozes da zakljucis koliko je to zgodno za kontrolu i uopste za
poslovanje ...
----------------------------------------
>> Zakon o racunovodstvu mozda jeste smejurija,
>> ali to je stvar o kojoj
>> mozemo da pricamo u nekom drugom kontekstu.
Paaaa, zapravo, bilo bi vrlo interesantno da se o tome povede diskusija,
sigurno ovde ima dosta zainteresovanih ... samo je pitanje GDE ?
----------------------------------------
>> Ovde se povela rec o tome
>> kako doci do informacija dovoljnih
>> da bi covek, po svojoj nameri,
>> napisao program za vodenje poslovnih knjiga.
Aaaaaaa moderator je proradio u tebi ... ;))))
----------------------------------------
>> A ako radis sa njima, neces morati da menjas (((:
Pa moraces, bar u mom slucaju kada program moras da prilagodis individualnim
potrebama Pere, Djoke, Rake ... ali mnogo manje jer ti je ENGINE sigurno
ispravan.
-----------------------------------------
>> Rekao sam ti vec: ako ne shvatas ovaj
>> posao obiljno, nemoj da gubis
>> vreme baveci se ovom vrstom softvera.
Ne secam se da si mi to rekao ... ali ne mari.
Pa, ovim poslom se i ne bavim ozbiljno, ja od toga ne zivim, niti zelim da
zivim ... (bitju doktor :)))
Ono, zaradjeni novac mi je cisto za zivot&mladost ... ali SU MOJI PROGRAMI
SAVRSENO FUNKCIONALNI I PROVERENI U PRAKSI (malo EPP, ali zivot je takav) ...
Nadam se da moja (ne)ozbiljost ne utice na moje programiranje, vec samo na
moje poslovanje ...
Sad se setih jedne zgode kad mi je konkurencija uvalila sadasnjem klijent
jedan krajnje BEDAN program za STR po ceni od 300 DEM ... :)
Bio sam toliko frustriran da sam se nedelju dana nosio mislju da pocenm da
delim svoj program (koji je DZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN u odnosu na njihov) po ceni
od 5-10 DEM ... cisto koliko da se reklamiram&da ih unistim ... hmmmmm ...
ukoliko se ikada resim da to uradim ova konferencija ce prva da dobije te
programe ...
-----------------------------------------
>> Programski jezik je apsolutno irelevantan.
Jes' irelevantan ... 'ajd da te vidim koliko bi ti vremena trebalo u C-u a
koliko u Clipperu za razvoj istog programa ...
------------------------------------------
>> barem je rizik veci, posto vecina njih nema
>> blagog pojma sa knjigovodstvom.
Eeee, sad. Jes' da nije tema konferencije, ali ne bi se slozio ...
Znam bar dva finansijska policajca koji su majstori svog zanata (i moj tata je
medju njima) ...
-------------------------------------------
>> ali ako imas vece zube od njih, mogu da ti
>> pljunu pod prozor,
A mogu i da ti naplate koj' milion poreza ... ;)
-------------------------------------------
>> pod uslovom da si ispravno uradio posao.
... sto se dogadja retko ... :)
-------------------------------------------
>> Ja, koji o knjigovodstvu znam koliko
>> i o stelarnoj mehanici,
'el si ti bese fiziku studirao ? ;)
-------------------------------------------
>> sam uspeo da ulovim ekipu iz finansijske
>> policije da ne umeju da izvedu najgluplju internu kalkulaciju
Pa, dabome, ima i u finansijskoj idiJota koji su na (ne)"znani" nacin u tu
sluzbu dospeli ... ali ti ih bas ocrni ...
-------------------------------------------
>> kako to da softver moze da
>> bude osnovno sredstvo.
Jaaaaaaaaaaaoj da znas sta se tek meni po tom pitanju dogadjalo ... :)))
razno.593udav,
-> #587, banga
>> Paket je obuhvatao samo finansijsko knjigovodstvo, a u njemu:
Aaaaaaamaaaa, skidam kapu i za to "samo" sto je obuhvatao, a sto si uspeo da
uradis 1971 ... :)
Pozdrav :)
razno.594dr.grba,
-> #592, udav>> Pravo da ti kazem Grbo, neeeeeemam poooooooojma kakve veze ima pitanje
>> sustine/forme u vezi kontrole ovlascenog organa nad mojim program i nacina
>> na koji programiram ... :)
Imea veze. Kontrola programa, ako se ikada počne primenjivati, jeste
forma. Suština je u radu programa koji zadovoljava zakonske norme bez
obzira na kontrolu.
>>>> Seti se da svaka izmena u glavnoj
>>>> knjizi mora da bude pracena odgovarajucim dokumentom.
>>
>> Eeeeee Grbo, nista se ne mora u zivotu sem da se umre ...
Pokušavam da budem racionalan u ovoj raspravi. Bilo bi lepo kada bi
i ti pokušao isto.
>>>> Ovde se povela rec o tome
>>>> kako doci do informacija dovoljnih
>>>> da bi covek, po svojoj nameri,
>>>> napisao program za vodenje poslovnih knjiga.
>>
>> Aaaaaaa moderator je proradio u tebi ... ;))))
Nema ovo veze sa mojim statusom moderatora. Uostalom, ja sam moderator
Civilizacije. Ovde raspravljam u svojstvu profesionalca koji se već
skoro osam godina bori sa ovakvim stvarima. Preživeo sam ko zna koliko
devalvacija, hiperinflaciju, denominaciju, dve ili tri promene
zakonskih regulativa i novi kontni okvir.
Sa istim softverom.
>>>> Ja, koji o knjigovodstvu znam koliko
>>>> i o stelarnoj mehanici,
>>
>> 'el si ti bese fiziku studirao ? ;)
Ne, ja sam po struci inženjer informatike.
razno.595dr.grba,
-> #593, udav>>>> Paket je obuhvatao samo finansijsko knjigovodstvo, a u njemu:
>>
>> Aaaaaaamaaaa, skidam kapu i za to "samo" sto je obuhvatao, a sto si uspeo
>> da uradis 1971 ... :)
Šta tu ima da se skida kapa: programiranje je posao kao i svaki drugi,
sa svojim ambijentom, svojim lepotama, svojim problemima i svojim
mukama. Čovek je radio na mašini koja je imala ČAK 24 KB memorije u
vreme kada je većina imala 4 KB memorije (banga, je l' bila feritna
memorija?) i imao je mesta ne da piše programe, već i kolo da igra (:
razno.596banga,
-> #595, dr.grba> vreme kada je većina imala 4 KB memorije (banga, je l' bila
> feritna memorija?) i imao je mesta ne da piše programe, već i
> kolo da igra (:
Da 6 modula.
A da sam mogao kolo da igram uglavnom jesam sem kod programa koji su
vršili kontrolu ulaznih podataka, tu je čak bilo i overlay-a :)
Često je sporost procesora i neoptimizovan Cobol generisani kod dovodio
do potrebe linkovanja asmblerskih rutina u Cobol kod (retko je to neko
radio u to vreme), ali sam neke programe ubrzavao sa 20 sati na 30 min.
Za optimalan rad nije bilo pametno opterećivati procesor više od toga da
se motanje traka drastično smanji, o čemu tadašnji programeri uglavnom
nisu vodili računa jer nisu ni imali pojma. Mislili su da tako mora.
I tada su se radili pačevi, naravno oni koji su znali asemblerski i
samim tim i mašinski kod.
Tada sam se bavio i takvim stvarima kao što je ubrzanje boot i loader
rutina koje su tako pisane da bi zadovoljile i kupce bez extended set-a
instrukcija koje smo imali, zatim sort po YU slovima, pa i ubrzanje koda
koji se generisao kompajlerom za rad sa aritmetikom.
Glavni problem je bio rad sa trakama. Napr sort baze od 14 traka, koji
je rađen na kraju godine zbog nekog idiotskog izveštaja od 20 kutija
papira koji niko posle nije ni gledao, trajao je 25 sati.
razno.597banga,
-> #592, udav> Naravno ... ima tu jedno "ali" koje se ogleda na tome da bi
> bilo moguce u program ugraditi opciju kripcije/dekripcije koja
> bi "u potpunosti" zastitila bazu od srednje obrazovanih
> korisnika, dok bi vestiji programeri i dalje mogli da spekulisu
Ti izgleda ne razumeš dvojno finansijko knjigovodstvo. To je zatvoren
sistem gde nikakvo "prčkanje" po bazi sem preko ulaza (knjigovodstvenih
stavki duguje-potražuje) nije moguć, a da negde nešto ne istrči napolje,
što može da vidi iole iskusni knjigovođa odmah, ako već sam sistem to ne
primeti i pobuni se.
I moje knjigovođe kad su videle sistem u funkciji su to brzo shvatile i
nisu dalje ni pokušavali da me u tako nešto uvaljuju.
Oni su sami našli način da to rade legalno, što se samog sistema tiče, a
to je bila i ostaje njihova stvar :)
razno.598jujo,
-> #581, kojai# >> A ja mislio da je AutoLISP umro...kakva zabluda... ;))))
#
#
# Da li je?
Ma bio sam malo ironican. Zaista, ne poznajem nikoga ko programira
u AutoLISP-u.
yooyo:
razno.599udav,
-> #594, dr.grba
>> Imea veze. Kontrola programa, ako se ikada pocne primenjivati,
Ajd', ajd' , ti si u pravu ... ;)
-----------------------------------
>> Pokusavam da budem racionalan u ovoj raspravi.
>> Bilo bi lepo kada bi i ti pokusao isto.
Theeeee breeeeee ... a ja pokusavam da se i malo zezam&veselim, koliko da
raazbijem monotoniju, ali vidim da si covek koji ne shvata salu ...
-----------------------------------
>> Nema ovo veze sa mojim statusom moderatora.
Aha, kao nema, ali pocinjes potpuno sponatano da mi nabacujes kako neke
stvari nisu tema ove konferencije ...
-----------------------------------
>> Ovde raspravljam u svojstvu profesionalca koji se vec
>> skoro osam godina bori sa ovakvim stvarima.
Moje postovanje za tvoju borbu i profesionalizam, ja se eto borim mnogo krace
od tebe i valjda manje profesionalno, ali verujem da obojica imamo sta da
kazemo ... ti svakako vise od mene.
-----------------------------------
>> Sa istim softverom.
Kako to mislis ??? Valjda si menjao nesto u tim tvojim programima :))) ...
-----------------------------------
>> Sta tu ima da se skida kapa:
Ama, skidam kapu uopste za te pionire informatike ...
Nekad se znala radnja&matematika a danas svaki klinac moze da programira baze
podataka ...
-----------------------------------
>> i imao je mesta ne da pise programe, vec i kolo da igra (:
"Svirajte mi pesmu vraaaaaanjnskuuuuuu, svirajte mi pesmu ubaaavuuuuu ... " :)
----------------------------------
razno.600maksa,
-> #590, dr.grba>> ALi, postoji i druga, pozitivna strana: objektni model je danas lak za
>> primenu.
Objektni model je, aj' da kažemo, lak za primenu, al' je muka živa
elegantno ga uklopiti sa relacionim (koji dominira kad je bilo kakvo
bazanje u pitanju).
Da li neko ovde ima takva iskustva, i spreman je da ih razmeni?
razno.601udav,
-> #597, banga
>> Ti izgleda ne razumes dvojno finansijko knjigovodstvo.
Kada neko dodje kod mene i kaze mi da to i to polje treba da se menja, ja to
uradim. Nije moja stvar kako ce on sve to da namesta, ali koliko sam ja video,
to uspe ...
----------------------------------------------
>> ako vec sam sistem to ne primeti i pobuni se.
Pa u tome je i lepota komjuterskog vodjenja knjiga, kompijuter se pobuni, i
klijent odmah zna da nesto nije lepo namesteno, pa gleda da uskladi ulaz/izlaz
... :)
-----------------------------------------------
>> a to je bila i ostaje njihova stvar :)
Ma, jeste ...
razno.602supers,
-> #599, udav
>> Theeeee breeeeee ... a ja pokusavam da se i malo zezam&veselim, koliko
>> da raazbijem monotoniju, ali vidim da si covek koji ne shvata salu ...
Treba se uvek i šaliti, ali meni ne polazi za rukom da pronađem neki
koristan sadržaj u tvojim porukama... A za takve postoji konfa CHAT.
razno.603udav,
-> #602, supers
>> ali meni ne polazi za rukom da pronadem neki
>> koristan sadrzaj u tvojim porukama...
1. Pa ne citas dovoljno pazljivo sinko ... treba gledati izmedju redova, malo
uz to i razmisljati i sl. trudi se, uzdizi se intelektualno i pre ili kasnije
nesto ces i da naucis ... :)
2. Ja ti savetujem da mi lupis ignore ... lepo i tebi i meni ... ;)
P.S
Ako te nesto interesuje iz Clippera, mozes da me pitas, bre nego sto mi lupis
ignore ... :)
razno.604dr.grba,
-> #599, udav>>>> Pokusavam da budem racionalan u ovoj raspravi.
>>>> Bilo bi lepo kada bi i ti pokusao isto.
>>
>> Theeeee breeeeee ... a ja pokusavam da se i malo zezam&veselim, koliko da
>> raazbijem monotoniju, ali vidim da si covek koji ne shvata salu ...
Shvatam šalu kada ima mere. Ali, ti koristiš svaku moguću priliku da
se "šališ", kako ti to nazivaš.
>>>> Nema ovo veze sa mojim statusom moderatora.
>>
>> Aha, kao nema, ali pocinjes potpuno sponatano da mi nabacujes kako neke
>> stvari nisu tema ove konferencije ...
Naravno. Čovek ne mora da bude moderator da bi te upozorio na tako
nešto.
>> Moje postovanje za tvoju borbu i profesionalizam, ja se eto borim mnogo
>> krace od tebe i valjda manje profesionalno, ali verujem da obojica imamo
>> sta da kazemo ... ti svakako vise od mene.
Zato sam i ušao u raspravu, a ne da bih se raspravljao i prepirao.
>>>> Sa istim softverom.
>>
>> Kako to mislis ??? Valjda si menjao nesto u tim tvojim programima :))) ...
Kao prvo, nisam ja pisao te programe. U ekipi koja plasira softver
radim kao saradnik i konsultant na uvođenju. Imam, pride, uticaja
na razvoj softvera.
A drugo: da, menjano je, i to dosta. Ali je to za korisnika bilo
transparentno. Jednostavno, pojavi se nova funkcija koja izvede
denominaciju ili prekontiranje iz kontnog plana u kontni okvir ili
mešoviti nalog za knjiženje (finansijsko i pogonsko knjigovodstvo).
razno.605dr.grba,
-> #601, udav>> Kada neko dodje kod mene i kaze mi da to i to polje treba da se menja, ja
>> to uradim. Nije moja stvar kako ce on sve to da namesta, ali koliko sam ja
>> video, to uspe ...
Upravo zbog ovakvim muzičkih želja sam se upustio u učenje
knjigovodstva. Istina je da to ne znam bogzna koliko niti imam nameru
da se time ikada bavim lično, ali sam bio prinuđen da se upoznam sa
stvarima kako ne bih dozvolio da knjigovođe prave budalu od mene.
Zauzeo sam stav babaroge (: pa su naučili da mi se ne obraćaju nikad,
osim kada im nešto *stvarno* zatreba. Najgore im je kada ih uhvatim u
neznanju i nekompetentnom radu. Nikada to nisam zloupotrebljavao, ali
sam im stavljao do znanja. I da vidiš, sad su krotki k'o jagnjad.
Slušali su šta im govorim. Eno matorih mastiljara koje se kunu životom
da su prvi put u svom stažu postigli dnevnu ažurnost glavne knjige.
Šefica računovodstva ni posle trećeg završnog računa ne može da se
opasulji zašto celu operaciju radimo četiri sata, kada su ranije
radili *svi* dvanaest sati dnevno, dve nedelje (sve sa vikendom).
razno.606apopovic,
Pitanje !
Ima li neko program like FakeCD - DOS ali u windows95 okruzenju ?
razno.607shegoterach,
-> #606, apopovic>> 31.606 PCPROG.6:razno
>> apopovic, 13.05.98. 21:45, 82 chr
>> Pitanje !
>> Ima li neko program like FakeCD - DOS ali u windows95 okruzenju ?
Postoji program Virtual CD za Windows 95, koji pravi image diska
i pakuje ga u jedan fajl. Program je inache komercijalni i
zauzima oko 3Mb tako da...je najbolje da posetish svog lokalnog
pirata...
Inache, ova fora pali za skoro sve W95 igre...
poz.
razno.608apopovic,
-> #607, shegoterach>Postoji program Virtual CD za Windows 95, koji pravi image diska....
>itd..
Hvala na obavestenju. :)
razno.609guta,
Borland (sada Inprise Corporation) je izdao novu verziju JBuilder-a:
JBuilder 2
----------
Evo i malog overview-a, kroz Q & A:
JBuilder 2 - Basic Questions and Answers
Q. What is JBuilder 2?
A. Borland JBuilder 2 is a family of highly productive, visual development
tools for creating high-performance, platform-independent applications using
the Java programming language from Sun Microsystems. The JBuilder 2
scalable, component-based environment is designed for all levels of
"Information Network" development projects, ranging from applets and
applications that require networked database connectivity to client/server and
enterprise-wide, distributed multi-tier computing solutions. The JBuilder 2
open environment supports 100% Pure Java, JavaBeans, Enterprise
JavaBeans, Servlets, JDK 1.1, JDK 1.2, JFC/Swing, CORBA, RMI,
customizers, inner-class, serialization, JDBC, ODBC, and all major corporate
database servers
Q. What is the "Information Network" strategy?
A. Our goal is to help IT organizations develop, deploy and manage a new
breed of distributed enterprise applications that enable access to all of the
various data sources in their organizations and transform it into useful
information to support business decision making.
We call this the Information Network strategy, because it leverages the
network of connected resources to transform a corporation's vast amounts of
data into real-time information that is customized for its users, whether they
are employees, customers or suppliers. By building Information Network
applications with Inprise tools and intelligent middleware, organizations are
able to reduce their cost of development and increase their use of information
systems to support faster time-to-market for products and services. And
ultimately, those information systems will enable firms to be more competitive
globally in their markets, attract new customers, sell more products and lower
their cost of doing business.
Q. What are the key business and technological advantages that
JBuilder 2 provides?
A. Business and database application development - JBuilder 2 includes
the Pure Java DataExpress architecture, so business and database
application developers can deliver robust, platform-independent
database applications in record time.
Distributed Application Development - Through the integration of
the VisiBroker CORBA ORB, distributed application developers can
deliver scalable, enterprise applications in less time than before
Servlet Development - JBuilder 2 includes a Wizard to automate
the process of creating Java Server-Side applications that work in
conjunction with Web Servers for making corporate information
available over the Web.
JavaBean Development - JBuilder's BeansExpress gives
professionaldevelopers and commercial JavaBean vendors the visual
productivity tools needed to rapidly deliver industry standard JavaBeans
Enterprise JavaBean (EJB) Development - JBuilder 2 includes a
Wizard to simplify creation of industry standard EJB components
for creating reusable distributed objects.
Q. What is new in JBuilder 2?
A. JBuilder 2 is full of new features, which speed up and simplify
the development of Java applets, applications, and JavaBeans including:
JDK Switching for creating applications using various Java
environments - JDK 1.02, 1.1.x, and 1.2.
JDK 1.1.6 included, for the most up to date version of Sun's
standard JDK.
JFC/Swing Integration. Wizard and Designer support for rapidly
creating applications with professional user interfaces.
CodeInsight Wizards for maximum productivity, reduced coding
errors, and putting new technologies to use today.
BeansExpress with BeanDesigners - Rapidly create reusable,
industry standard JavaBean components using automated Wizards and
flexible designers.
Integrated CORBA development, including VisiBroker for Java 3.2,
to rapidly create platform-independent, distributed object
applications.
Deployment Server for Java to deploy and manage applications and
their associated Java Runtime Environments (JRE's).
Servlet Wizard for rapidly creating Web-Server applications
using Java.
Enhanced Pure Java DataExpress, Enterprise JavaBean Wizard, plus
much, much more.
razno.610guta,
Borland JBuilder 2 vs. IBM Visual Age for Java
visage.ziprazno.611guta,
Borland JBuilder 2 vs. Symantec Visual Cafe for Java 2.0
vcfj.ziprazno.612guta,
Borland JBuilder 2 vs. Microsoft Visual J++
visjpp.ziprazno.613guta,
Kao i većina softverske industrije, i Microsoft se upustio u rešavanje
"problema 2000 godine", i u tu svrhu je testirao sopstvene proizvode.
U narednim porukama se nalaze spiskovi testiranih aplikacija, kategorizovanih
prema donjoj tabeli
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Microsoft has classified its products into five categories:
Category Description
Compliant The product fully meets Microsoft's standard of compliance.
May have prerequisite patch or service pack for compliance
Compliant The product meets Microsoft's standard of compliance
with minor with some disclosed exceptions that constitute
issues minor date issues
Not Compliant The product does not meet Microsoft's standard of
compliance
Testing yet Product test is not yet complete or has not been started
to be but will be tested
completed
Will not test The product will not be tested for compliance
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
razno.614guta,
Microsoft-ove aplikacije, kompajleri, itd. koji su prošli testiranje, i
spadaju u grupe "Compliant" i "Compliant with minor issues".
compl.ziprazno.615guta,
Microsoft-ove aplikacije, kompajleri, itd. koji NISU prošli testiranje,
tj. nisu spremni za Y2K bug.
notcompl.ziprazno.616guta,
Microsoft User/Programmer Questions And Answers on Y2000 problem.
Fajl je zanimljiv, jer obrađuje sve i svašta - od porekla samog problema,
tehničkih implikacija i mogućih rešenja, do predviđanja socioloških
posledica ovog problema. Obrađen je i hardverski i softverski aspekt
problema.
2kfaq.ziprazno.617guta,
Da li su vaše aplikacije spremne za NT 5.0? U članku ispod, možete pročitati
o preporučenim metodama za testiranje aplikacija.
PročItajte članak i ako ne nameravate sada da se bavite NT-om 5.0, jer je
većina stvari koje su opisane primenljiva na bilo kom OS-u. Takođe, u
članku su navedene metode testiranja koje Microsoft obavlja sa sopstvenim
aplikacijama, kao i zanimljiv opis uzroka "plavog ekrana" (Bluescreen).
Iz članka se takođe može saznati ponešto o novinama koje će sadržati nova
verzija NT-a.
----------------------------------------------------
Testing Driver, Filter, and Services
Applications on Windows NT 5.0
Noel Nyman
Windows NT Applications Test
Summary
While testing applications on prerelease builds of Microsoftr Windows NTr 5.0,
we've found categories of applications that share similar problems (bugs). We
refer to the applications as "driver applications" because they have one or
more of these characteristics:
They install a driver during system boot or user log on
They use a file filter
They install a Windows NT service
Antivirus, remote control, backup, disk defragmenter and redirector
applications are typical driver applications.
This article discusses the types of bugs the Windows NT Applications Test team
found and the testing methods that expose them. The test methods described
here may help you identify bugs exposed in your applications on Windows
NT 5.0. Our goal is to release Windows NT 5.0 with as many applications as
possible running bug free on the operating system.
Verify the tests discussed here against your existing application test plans to
ensure that the bugs found by these methods are also exposed by your regular
tests. We use applications on pre-release builds of Windows NT to find Windows
NT bugs. We cannot test applications exhaustively. The tests described in this
paper are not meant to be comprehensive for any application.
Bluescreens
The most disturbing bugs a user sees when running Windows NT result in a
"bluescreen," the character mode screen with a blue background and cryptic
lists of driver names with addresses in hexadecimal. The bluescreen is known
colloquially as "the bluescreen of death" because it means Windows NT has
crashed, as far as the user is concerned. The only recourse is to manually
reset or power cycle the computer. Often, data not saved to disk is lost in
the process.
User-mode applications rarely cause bluescreens. Windows NT usually isolates
user processes from the operating system to prevent such problems. Driver
applications can cause bluescreens because they are more closely linked to the
operating system than user applications.
Bluescreens During Startup and Log On
We've seen several driver applications that bluescreen immediately when the
computer is rebooted after installation or when the user first logs on. In
most cases, these bluescreens are consistent and, if they happen with your
application, you've probably already seen them if you've tested it on a
Windows NT 5.0 beta build.
Some of the startup and log on bluescreens are not consistent. They may appear
intermittently, or on some test systems and not on others. To find
inconsistent or infrequent bluescreens, try these test scenarios:
Install your application on a checked build of Windows NT. The checked build
debugging code may catch problems that are handled or ignored by free builds.
The additional code in Windows NT checked drivers changes the address
relationships of drivers and filters, and has exposed pesky intermittent bugs.
Install debug versions of your application's drivers. They may expose bugs in
ways similar to checked Windows NT builds.
Install other applications on your test computers. Pick applications that
your customers are likely to use at the same time as your application. Common
choices might be office suites, Web browsers, utilities, information managers,
development environments, and games. Vary the installation scenarios so that
your application drivers are not always loaded in the same sequence with other
drivers.
Use a variety of test platforms that reflect the range of your application.
Install on FAT, FAT32 and Windows NTFS file systems. Use a variety of video
hardware, resolutions, and color depths for applications that may install
different files for some configurations. Connect a variety of serial and
Universal Serial Bus (USB) devices when testing installations.
Bluescreens During Regular Operation of Your Application
Tests in these categories can help you find bluescreen problems that occur
after startup and log on.
File access tests
Driver applications are often intimately involved with file access. Here are
some of the tests we use that expose bluescreen bugs:
Format a disk.
Save files of varying sizes.
Delete files, with and without the recycle bin.
Save several files using the same names repeatedly to the same folders.
Overwrite both existing and deleted files.
Try to change locked files.
Try to access a drive from a command window or another application after
your application has accessed it.
Dismount disks from drives while your application is active.
Local drives
We see bluescreen bugs exposed by tests on some types of drives, but not
on others. Try to include one example of each of these in your local drive
test scenarios:
FAT
FAT32
NTFS 4.0 (uncompressed and compressed)
NTFS 5.0 (uncompressed and compressed)
Large drives
Over 2GB and over 4GB. Also check that your application doesn't misreport
total drivesize and free space.
Volume sets
Stripe sets
Floppy drives
CD-ROM drives
Removable media drives, such as Zip and Jaz drives
Integrated Device Electronics (IDE) drives
SCSI drives
Tape
IDE
SCSI
floppy drive controller
parallel port
Mount points
The drive that hosts a mount point must be a Windows NTFS 5.0 drive, but
the mounted share can be any type. If your application makes the assumption
that all folders will be Windows NTFS 5, you may see bugs when the application
processes these mount point types:
FAT
FAT32
NTFS 4.0
Compressed (if the host is uncompressed)
Uncompressed (if the host is compressed)
Distributed File System (DFS)
DOS, Windows for Workgroups
Windows 95
Novell
Built-in defragmentation
Windows NT 5.0 is scheduled to release with limited feature defragmentation.
The defragmenter is available on prerelease builds as a preview. Test your
application both before and after the defragmenter is used on local drives.
Network drives
If your application works with network or mapped shares, test each of these:
Windows NT FAT
Windows NT FAT32
NTFS 4.0 (compressed and uncompressed)
NTFS 5.0 (compressed and uncompressed)
DFS
DOS, Windows for Workgroups
Win95 FAT
Win95 FAT32
Novell shares
Shares mounted with third party redirectors
Test Your Application while Other Applications Run
Occasionally your application tests bug free, but other applications will
have problems because of changes you've made in the operating system. While
your application is running, install and test some of these types of
applications:
Applications that access drives and files your application monitors
Applications that your customers may commonly use
Applications that access system resources such as:
a Printer port
COM ports
a Game port
a USB
a Network Interface Card (NIC)
Use your application on "typical desktops" for several days of user
activity. For applications that run on servers, use load and stress tests.
Beta testing is also a good source of "typical desktops" user bugs.
Failure to Initialize
We've seen several applications that fail to start a real-time monitor
function, but don't warn the user that the function isn't working. Antivirus
program users, for example, may assume they're protected against viruses when
opening files from a floppy disk or network share, even in the absence of a
real-time monitor icon on the taskbar, unless your application specifically
warns them about a failure to initialize this feature. The best solution is
to make sure the feature properly starts on Windows NT 5.0. However, if the
feature fails, check that one of these events happens:
A prominent message to the user appears during startup or log on when
initialization fails
A failure message is added to the event log
If your application displays an icon on the Windows NT 4.0 taskbar,
make sure it appears on Windows NT 5.0 when the functionality is active.
Use a separate "disabled" icon when the functionality is not available,
rather than just removing your icon from the taskbar.
Other Driver Application Bugs
The bugs in this section seldom result in bluescreens and they may not cause
serious problems, such as data loss. But they are obvious to the user and we
have found each of them in more than one application. When testing your
application on Windows NT 5.0 be sure to check the following:
Replacing system files. Some applications try to replace system files with
older versions. Windows NT 5.0 generally won't allow that to happen and the
installation of your application is blocked. There are often workarounds
so that the user can install your application, but they are tedious and
unnecessary.
Using version information incorrectly. Your application may fail to install
on Windows NT 5.0 because it misinterprets the Windows NT version.
Windows NT 5.0 identifies itself to applications from the GetVersionEx
function. Some applications assume that Windows NT will always be version
3.51 or 4.0. Other applications assume they won't work on any Windows
operating system that's not version 4.0.
Program group. Make sure your installer created only one program group and
all the shortcuts are correct.
Default installation path. Check the default path the installer displays.
We've seen a few installation programs that either repeat the drive letter or
use incorrect characters that Windows NT won't accept in a path name.
Don't assume that C: is the system drive. Use the environment variables
%SystemDrive%, %windir%, and %ProgramFiles% (new in Beta 2 of Windows
NT 5.0) to locate the system drive and path for the application.
Installer errors. Some versions of InstallShield display a "string too long"
error and give the uninstaller shortcut icon in the program group a bogus path.
Video driver issues. Applications that work closely with the video system,
such as remote control applications, should check for appropriate integration
with the full range of video drivers and resolutions. Your customers will be
using the new multiple monitor features in Windows NT 5.0 and you'll want
to make sure your application can see and work with all their monitors.
Changes in disabling tape drivers. If your application uses its own tape
driver, be sure to change the message you give to users when you find the
system tape driver in use. On Windows NT 5.0 users disable the tape driver
in the Microsoft Management Console. If they remove the driver, as they did
on Windows NT 4.0, the Windows NT Plug-and-Play feature may reinstall
the driver next time the user restarts Windows NT 5.0.
Application log and report files. Test your application's log file feature
thoroughly. Some applications find they can't write to the log file. Others
do write to the file, but give users a message saying they can't write to it.
In a few cases, the application access violates when users create log files
or print report files using an existing file name.
Application messages. A few applications give users incorrect messages. For
example, they report scans canceled by the user when the scan terminated
normally without user intervention.
Boot records. Some applications that scan disk drives report they can't
see some or all boot records. Make sure all calls to CreateFile, ReadFile,
and WriteFile use sector aligned buffers. See the Win32 SDK for more
information.
Different behavior between platforms. Some applications that provide versions
for both x86-based and DEC Alpha-based processors exhibit different behavior
on Alpha than on x86. Run your full test suite on both platforms.
Browser integration. If your application uses the installed browser to
access local files or connect to Internet sites, test its integration with
Internet Explorer 5.
System resources. Either because of bugs or changes between Windows NT 4.0
and Windows NT 5.0, some applications can't view and display system resources
such as the recycle bin, CPU utilization, and the event viewer.
CD AutoRun. Test AutoRun on a CD-ROM after your application is installed.
In a few cases, applications accidentally prevent this feature from working.
Installing application fonts. Occasionally application fonts are not
properly installed in the system. The fonts may be visible until the user
shuts down Windows NT 5.0, but they're unavailable when the user starts
Windows NT again.
Help files. Some applications don't display all or some of their own help
files.
Verifying users. Applications that require a valid computer or domain user
don't always accept valid users on trusted domains. Test your application
with user names from a variety of domain configurations.
Application process does not close. In a few cases, the application process
does not close when the user exits the application even though the parent
window is no longer visible.
Often the user can't restart the application and receives the mystifying
message that the application is already running, even though they can't see
the application's windows.
Long timeouts waiting for resources. Some applications wait an excessive
amount of time for resources they expect to see. For example, if your
application is installed on a computer with a network card, but the computer
is not currently connected to the network, make sure your application
doesn't appear to "hang" waiting for the network to become available.
Uninstalling. Some applications don't register an uninstaller and the user
will not be able to uninstall them from the Application Wizard. Even when
an uninstaller is available, the application may not uninstall. Some
uninstallers hang and others don't remove all the files, folders, and
registry entries that they did on Windows NT 4.0.
Migration Issues
We want users to be able to migrate from a Windows 95 or a Windows NT 4.0
installation directly to Windows NT 5.0 with all preferences, privileges,
and applications working after migration. Microsoft has provided the
Migration DLL feature so that vendors can make changes necessary to allow
Windows 95 applications to run successfully on Windows NT 5.0 after
migration. Application migration from Windows NT 4.0 to Windows NT 5.0
should not require special code. Test migration for your application by
installing on Windows 95 and/or Windows NT 4.0, then installing
Windows NT 5.0 in the same %systemroot% folder.
Run your full regression test suite after Windows NT 5.0 migration, paying
particular attention to the special issues raised in this article.
razno.618guta,
Da li treba da budemo zabrinuti zbog (ne)kompatibilnosti NT-a 5.0?
Izgleda da treba - za većinu postojećih aplikacija ćete morati da napišete
i dodatni DLL, i to specifičan za _svaku_ vašu aplikaciju (!) - bez toga
aplikacija neće moći da radi na NT-u 5.0.
Ako ima zainteresovanih, mogu da dopremim i "Designed for Windows NT 5.0
and Windows 98 logo handbook"
-------------------------
Windows NT 5.0 migration:
Why you should care
by John Swenson, MSDN Online
If you think it's too early to begin preparing for Windows NT 5.0, think again.
If you want your existing Windows applications to run properly when your
customers upgrade to the new operating system, it's time to start testing
today.
The best place to begin is by creating a Windows NT 5.0 migration DLL. If you
have to ask what this is, then read on. In this article, I'll give you an
overview of the migration DLL and explain why you'll probably need to write
one for many of your Windows 95 applications, to make sure they run properly
in Windows NT 5.0.
Unfortunately, we can't tell you how hard it's going to be to write a
migration DLL for your application.
"What one app needs to migrate compared to what another app is going to
need varies widely," says Jonathan Smith, a program manager on the Windows
NT 5.0 Setup Team.
Don't fret, however. Chances are it won't be a hard task.
"It's actually fairly simple to write a migration DLL," says Dave Beaver, a
software design engineer who runs Microsoft's Windows NT 5.0 migration lab.
"We've had people get their migration DLLs in good shape in one week in our
lab."
Most of the migration DLLs he's seen range in size from about 100K, for
simple Windows applications, to several megabytes for complex Windows
applications such as utilities that require more migration work. A few software
vendors who have tested their Windows apps with Beta 1 of Windows NT 5.0
discovered they don't need a migration DLL at all.
The goal of the migration DLL is simple: "Make your app run as well as it did
on Windows 95. That's all we want from the migration DLL," Smith says.
Getting the word out
The fact that many Windows applications will need a migration DLL to run
properly on PCs upgraded to Windows NT 5.0 isn't widely known among
Windows developers, Beaver admits.
"We haven't purposely hidden this, but it's work that we probably haven't
publicized very well. It's new work for NT 5.0 that companies probably aren't
budgeting for," he says.
To help companies avoid surprises when Windows NT 5.0 is released,
Microsoft is trying to do a better job of telling them about migration issues
in advance.
"We're making a big push to tell developers 'Start testing.' That's why we
gave out Beta 1 at the PDC," says Smith, referring to the Microsoft
Professional Developers Conference in September, where the company
distributed the first beta of Windows NT 5.0. "I'm sure there are a whole
lot of developers saying 'We're not going to start testing until Beta 2,'
he adds.
The key message the Windows NT 5.0 Setup Team wants to broadcast is: It's
not too early to begin testing your apps today for Windows NT 5.0
compatibility.
"One of our biggest problems with NT 4.0," Beaver says, "was we didn't get
vendors started testing early enough."
Test, test, test
The only way to find out for sure what type of migration DLL your application
needs is to test your app with the beta of Windows NT 5.0.
"Do the right thing for your existing applications now, while you have time,"
Smith advises. Later, when you're busy developing new applications for
Windows NT 5.0, you'll wish you dealt with the migration issues for your
existing Windows applications earlier.
So how are developers supposed to get migration DLLs to their customers if
their applications are already on the market? Via the Web, of course, which
has quickly become the preferred mechanism for distributing minor patches,
upgrades, and bug fixes.
Microsoft expects most companies to post their Windows NT 5.0 migration
DLLs for free on their Web sites. A few software companies may take a more
costly and proactive stance by distributing migration DLLs via CD-ROM to all
registered users of their applications. Some developers may try slipping bug
fixes for their existing applications in with the migration DLL, Beaver says.
A slew of detailed technical information about how to create a migration DLL
is in the Migration Extension Interface reference and Migration DLL FAQ that
we included in our MSDN feature on Windows NT 5.0 migration. The interface
reference document describes all seven of the functions every migration DLL is
supposed to provide. Additional information about writing migration DLLs is
included in the documentation that comes with the Windows NT 5.0 beta.
Fixing the problem
Remember Windows NT 4.0, when your Windows applications "disappeared"
after you upgraded to the new operating system, forcing you to reinstall them
all? This is exactly why Microsoft came up with the concept of a migration DLL
for Windows NT 5.0; to avoid this sort of problem.
If you are upgrading a Windows 95 PC to Windows NT 5.0, the new operating
system will detect installed applications during setup and call the migration
DLL for each application at various phases of the setup process. These DLLs
can move the registry keys and files for each application, as well as replace
files and perform other tasks needed to ensure that each application
continues to run properly after the PC has been upgraded to Windows NT 5.0.
Imagine you're an IS manager upgrading 1,000 PCs from Windows 95 to
Windows NT 5.0. Let's say your Windows application is installed on each of
those PCs. Do you think the IS manager is going to want to reinstall your
application on each PC after upgrading to Windows NT 5.0? Unlikely. But
that's exactly what he may have to do if you don't provide him with a
migration DLL for Windows NT 5.0.
"It's not that the app wouldn't run on NT 5.0, it's that the app might have to
be reinstalled after the operating system upgrade," Smith explains.
A few Windows apps might not run at all on Windows NT 5.0 without a
migration DLL, even if they are reinstalled after the operating system is
upgraded. Mostly, these are multimedia applications written for Windows 95
or Windows 3.1. Many of these applications make direct calls to hardware
(such as a sound card), something not allowed in Windows NT. To run in
Windows NT 5.0, such applications may require extensive modification.
In the future, Windows applications won't need migration DLLs if they are
written properly. To learn how to develop such applications, see Microsoft's
proposed new Designed for Windows NT 5.0 and Windows 98 logo handbook.
The right to feel smug
For the vast majority of today's Windows applications, Microsoft expects
developers to decide it's well worth their time to write a migration DLL. In
most cases, this will be a small task that ensures your application doesn't
break when your customers install Windows NT 5.0.
There's no need for Windows developers to get bogged down in the details of
what types of applications will migrate smoothly to Windows NT 5.0. Just test
your own applications and write migration DLLs as needed. Then make sure to
tell your customers about the migration DLL before they start upgrading to
Windows NT 5.0.
Come next year, when you hear other developers grumbling 'What's this
migration DLL stuff all about?,' you'll be ready. "I took care of that months
ago," you can smugly tell them.
razno.619guta,
Microsoft Migration Extension Interface Reference
Opis migracije postojećih aplikacija na Windows 98 i Windows NT 5.0
migrext.ziprazno.620guta,
Tool koji vam može pomoći kod testiranja instalacije aplikacija.
MS SysDiff
----------
Sysdiff is a tool that creates and applies system difference packages,
and generates installation INFs and distribution sharepoints.
Sysdiff is first run to take a snapshot of a system just prior to making
changes to it (such as installing applications). After changes are completed,
sysdiff is then run again to diff the new system state against the earlier
snapshotted state. The output is a sysdiff package file, which is an
archive of sorts, containing a description of ini file changes, registry
changes, and file changes (including the file data itself - thus sysdiff
packages can be quite large) that when applied on another Windows NT.
sysdiff.ziprazno.621guta,
RegMon
------
Tool koji registruje zahteve svih aplikacija za izmenama u Windows 95
Registry-ju, zgodno za testiranje aplikacija i instalacija.
regmon.ziprazno.622guta,
NTRegMon
--------
Tool koji registruje zahteve svih aplikacija za izmenama u Windows NT
Registry-ju, zgodno za testiranje aplikacija i instalacija.
ntregmon.ziprazno.623banga,
-> #618, guta> Izgleda da treba - za većinu postojećih aplikacija ćete morati
> da napišete i dodatni DLL, i to specifičan za _svaku_ vašu
> aplikaciju (!) - bez toga aplikacija neće moći da radi na NT-u
> 5.0.
Ne bih rekao da je ovo tačno. Dovoljno je aplikaciju deinstalirati pre
upgrade-a na NT5.0 i instalirati je ponovo, naročito ako se radi upgrade
sa W95. Tako bar piše u tekstu :)
Migration.dll služi onima koji su prodali pojedinim kupcima svoje
aplikacije, a ovi ih korste na recimo 1000 kompjutera.
Da ne bi morali da 1000 puta skinu i ponovo instaliraju aplikaciju ;)
razno.624saint,
Kada izlazi NT 5.0
Koliko ce da trazi od masine?
razno.625guta,
-> #623, banga#> Ne bih rekao da je ovo tačno. Dovoljno je aplikaciju deinstalirati pre
#> upgrade-a na NT5.0 i instalirati je ponovo, naročito ako se radi upgrade
#> sa W95. Tako bar piše u tekstu :)
Ok, možda sam malo preterao O:) Međutim, stoji činjenica o implicitnoj
nekompatibilnosti - bez obzira na tvrdnje MS-a, Win95 i WinNT nisu
potpuno kompatibilni, posebno u delovima koji se odnose na procese,
desktop, a servise i mrežnu komunikaciju i da ne pominjem. Ovo se,
pretežno, odnosi na programerski nivo gledanja na stvari - aplikacija
mora da bude "proper-written" da bi zaista radila na i na 95 i na NT
bez (većih) problema. Uostalom, pogledajte samo masu igara koje rade
praktično isključivo pod Win95, što zbog zaostalog DirectX u NT-u, što
zbog drugih nekompatibilnosti/razlika.
Drugi (polu)problem se očitava u instalacijama - ne postoji način da
instalirate aplikaciju u isto vreme na oba sistema, ako su oba instalirana
na istoj mašini - čak i MS proceduru instalacije na oba sistema svih svojih
paketa opisuje rečima "prvo instalirate pod jednim OS-om, pa zatim i pod
drugim, u isti direktorijum". Naravno, ovo je delimično potrebno jer je
Registry zaseban za oba sistema, ali to nije jedini razlog, recimo opis
migracionog DLL-a daje dugačak spisak stvari koje se moraju premestiti.
razno.626guta,
-> #624, saint#> Kada izlazi NT 5.0
Za sada, Microsoft najavljuje pretežno Beta 2 verziju za ovo leto, tako
da je vrlo mala mogućnost da se release verzija pojavi pre sledeće
godine.
#> Koliko ce da trazi od masine?
NT 4.0 Workstation zadovoljavajuće radi na prosečnoj mašini današnjice,
čak i za naše uslove (P133 ili 166, 32 do 64 (bolje 64) Mb RAM-a), a
MS najavljuje da će NT Workstation 5.0 raditi dobro na prosečnoj
mašini "tadašnjice" ;) Međutim, ovo ne bi trebalo da te previše brine,
jer je 5.0 više evolucija nego revolucija što se hardverskih zahteva tiče.
Grubo, razlike ne bi trebalo da budu mnogo veće nego na relaciji
Win95 -> Win98
Mada, mislim da sa ovom temom možemo lagano da se preselimo na kanabe
kod kolege sljubisica u PCOS :)
razno.627guta,
Transkript chat-a sa rukovodećim ljudima Inprise/Borland-a, o budućnosti
firme, razvojnim alatima, novim standardima, itd.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thursday May 14th INPRISE Executives
sponsored an "ExecuChat".
Recent changes at Borland, most notably the name change, were
open for discussion with Del Yocam, CEO, Rick LeFaivre,
Sr. VP-R &D, Zack Urlocker, VP-Marketing, and
Moderated by David I. Director of Developer Relations.
David I.: Welcome to the Inprise ExecuChat. This is your moderator,
David Intersimone, "David I." I am sitting in the Inprise boardroom with our
CEO, Del Yocam; Senior Vice President of R&D, Rick LeFaivre; and Vice
President of Marketing, Zack Urlocker.
I hope you all have set your VCRs to record the final Seinfeld episode
tonight. It is my fault that we are opposite such a unique TV event.
Before we start with the chat, I've been asked by the lawyers to post
the following message:
"Forward-looking statements, if any, made during this online discussion,
including, but not limited to those concerning Inprise's future
financial performance, product availability dates, and the potential features
of or benefits to be derived from the company's products, will involve a
number of uncertainties and risks, and actual events or results may differ
materially.
"Factors that could cause actual events or results to differ materially
include, among others, the following: difficulties in integrating the
operations and technology of Visigenic Software or other companies or
technologies which the company may acquire, possible disruptive effects
of organizational or personnel changes, shifts in customer demand, market
acceptance of the company's new or enhanced products, delays in scheduled
product availability dates, actions or announcements by competitors, software
errors, general business conditions, and market growth rates in the
client/server and Internet software markets, and other factors described in
the company's S.E.C. reports on forms 10-K, 10-Q, 8-K, and the Inprise. . ."
Del: David, you are not generally so boring.
David I.: ". . .(Borland) prospectus relating to the acquisition of
Visigenic Software."
This chat was set up in response to a request on our newsgroups to let
you ask questions of our executives on a range of topics, including our new
corporate name, long-term corporate vision and strategy, the announcementof
our professional services organization, and enterprise application server.
We're going to do our best to answer as many questions as we can during
the time allowed. We will not be able to answer questions about specific
unannounced product features and ship dates.
This moderated chat works as follows:
Your questions have either been e-mailed in advance to me or appear in a
separate window on my computer. Please limit your postings to one
question at a time.
Del: Aren't you done yet?
David I.: Everyone will see my posting of the question. We will all see
Del, Rick, and Zack responding using their own computers.
On to the questions!
Everyone has asked why we changed the name from Borland to Inprise?
Del: Over the last eighteen months we have completely changed the
company, with a new strategy, direction, marketing, customer base,
services, etc. I felt it was time to encapsulate all of this under a
new name: Inprise Corporation, "Integrating the Enterprise." It
has really been received well. Today, our mission is the development,
deployment, and managing of distributed enterprise applications.
David I.: Guest196 asked, "Why did you acquire Visigenic?"
Del: This gives us meat on the bones for our strategy and gives us great
support for CORBA, a great new industry standard.
Rick: We have been seeing a *lot* of interest in CORBA amongst our
enterprise customers. It's about to hit an interesting inflection point
in the market. We also are seeing a strong linkage between CORBA and Java
in the open systems marketplace.
Zack: The acquisition of Visigenic also gave us tremendous increase in
our infrastructure of corporate sales, support, and consulting in the US
and worldwide.
David I.: BEST asked - "Are you losing your focus on development tools?"
Del: No. Under the Inprise Corporation umbrella, we will continue with
our fabulously successful Borland brand of development tools!!!!!
Zack: As a long time Borlander (8 years) and a recent Inpriser, I can
say that we are very committed to the Borland family of development tools.
As many of you know, we released a new version of C++Builder 3 in the first
quarter, which has gotten great reviews in the press, and we've just
shipped a new release of JBuilder 2.0, which is getting a lot of
positive reaction. We will continue each quarter with new products and
I think you'll all find the next release of Delphi to be *very* exciting.
David I.: <Guest196> For CEO Del: "I am impressed by your vision. I will
be buying your stocks."
Del: Great! Buy a lot of stock!
David I.: <Salil> At JavaOne, I saw numerous companies advertising app
servers- how much will the market care about yours (and CORBA)?
Rick: We are already seeing a lot of interest in "enterprise-class"
AppServers that support Java on top of a strong CORBA infrastructure.
We believe that Inprise will provide a very robust solution
that combines the best of Java and CORBA, along with support in our
other tools.
David I.: <michael> "Please speak to increasing shareholder value."
Del: Over the last eighteen months, we have more than doubled
shareholder value. It is our intent to continue to build a great new company
for the future. I want to be a $500M rev. company in the year 2001. We will
do this through internal development and acquisitions.
David I.: Morten Christensen asked via e-mail: "Are you fully committed
to standards rather than your own (or Microsoft's)?"
Zack: We are very committed to open standards. Inprise doesn't have a
platform agenda; we don't have an operating system or hardware platform.
So we really believe in supporting what customers have, whether it's
Java, CORBA, COM, DCOM, UNIX, ActiveX, etc. We will certainly continue to
support MS standards and open industry standards.
David I.: <BEST> "Will the consulting arm of the company be competing
with existing consulting firms or will they be working together?"
Zack: We will always need to have partners, including consulting firms,
ISVs, System Integrators, etc. For example, in the U.S. we have over 55
consulting firms and partners we work with, ranging from the "big 6" firms to
medium-sized firms. In Europe we have even more. We will always work
with partners because that's what our customers ask for. Today our
services revenue is about 10 percent, and it will grow over the next couple
of years to about 20 percent. We won't get to the point where we compete
with our partners. That would be crazy.
David I.: Craig Patton asks via e-mail: "What is Roger Sippl's role with
Inprise?"
Del: Roger is the CTO of Inprise. As such, he will continue to monitor
and evaluate new technologies and products. He is not in an operating role.
He advises Rick, Jens Christensen, Kristen Brown (for acquisitions), and me
directly.
David I.: Hans Erik Eriksson from Sweden asks via e-mail: "What are the
four or five key competitive advantages that Inprise has in the 'enterprise
market' when battling with competitors?"
Rick: Well, we have *great* development tools, now coupled with *great*
middleware. Adding AppCenter to the mix provides great management
capability. In other words, a complete SOLUTION for developing,
deploying, and managing distributed applications.
David I.: Morten Christensen from Denmark asks: "What are you now? A
software development tools company? An enterprise solutions company?
What?"
Del: We are an "Enterprise Software Solution Provider." Enterprises
include department level applications development as well.
David I.: <Guest196> "How will Inprise look in the Year 2000?"
Del: We expect to be a $500M "distributed enterprise solutions company."
We will have services representing approximately 20 percent of our revenue.
David I.: Speaking of the year 2000 go to our Inprise Web site and check
out the product information.
David I.: Several people have asked about the future of Visual dBASE and
IntraBuilder.
Zack: We shipped a new version of dBASE in the fall, which is a new
32-bit version, in response to customer demands. dBASE is still very popular
with many large customers around the world, and we'll continue to monitor
the dBASE market as we do with all our products. We'll make a business
decision concerning future releases. IntraBuilder technology willl be
folded into our application server technology that we have recently begun
talking about so that we can have better better integration with Unix and
a more scalable solution.
David I.: How about some technology questions for Rick? Rick, can you
tell everyone about our technology partnerships with Microsoft, Sun,
Oracle, and others...
Rick: We put a lot of focus on working with other IT leaders. Sun, for
example, in the Java space; IBM in supporting the AS/400 and MVS
platform; SAP with our Delphi/Connect for SAP; Oracle, whose databases
we support and who OEMs both our Java and VisiBroker technology; and of
course, we work closely with Microsoft to support their evolving platform
technologies.
David I.: <Shane> "How many analysts now cover Inprise?"
Del: We have about three analysts, currently on our way to six by the
end of the quarter. It really is ramping up over the last three months.
David I.: <Aldo> "Are you still going to offer product discounts to
students?"
Del: Where is our pizza, Maurene? I'm hungry.
Zack: In fact, today we just had a presentation from our educational
marketing manager. We continue to generate very significant revenues
worldwide in educational sales and we're going to grow that revenue
further. It's good business for long-term growth, as students will become the
professionals of tomorrow. I mean, as long as they graduate.
Del: Somebody better ask me a question, I'm getting sleepy.
David I.: <Guest196> "Del: These are the days of mergers and takeovers!
Should I expect yet another change in your corporate name?"
Del: I just changed our name. You can't believe everything you read in
the trades and especially over the net, unless it comes from us.
David I.: <BEST> "What new features would we be most likely to see in
Delphi?"
Zack: While I can't talk about the specfic features of the next release
of Delphi, I can tell you it's going to be very hot. There's a lot of
high-productivity features for developers, a lot of new features that
people have asked about, new innovation building on our MIDAS technology.
You'll see more information in the coming months, but stay tuned.
David I.: Tom Goulding asked via e-mail: "What is Inprise's
multiple-platform position?"
Rick: Obviously, we have a strong commitment to the Microsoft platform
in our traditional tools. We have a strong position in cross-platform
middleware(Entera for RPC/DCE, VisiBroker for CORBA). JBuilder now allows
us to target all Java-enabled platforms, and we're looking at other forms of
cross-platform support.
David I.: <Shane> "Rick, is the R&D with Visigenic's people proceeding
well?"
Rick: I have been very pleased with the integration of the Borland and
Visigenic R&D teams. We now have strong R&D Centers in Scotts Valley,
San Mateo, Japan, Singapore, and Australia. Of course, we had been
working on integrating JBuilder and VisiBroker even before the
acquisition.
David I.: Several developers have asked: "Which products will be branded
under the Borland name and which will be branded under the Inprise name?"
Del: As I said earlier, the Borland brand is extemely strong, especially
in departments and independent developers. Under the Inprise name will be
our "VisiBroker" & "AppServer" products.
David I.: <Shane> "Explain how Microsoft can spoil your party."
Zack: Microsoft is of course a partner of ours and we support their
platform. Just as we've supported ActiveX, NT, Win95, SQL Server, IIS, etc.,
we will make sure we have great support for Microsoft technologies like MTS.
However, we go far beyond a Microsoft-only solution since we have
cross-platform support for Java, CORBA, mainframes, UNIX, etc.
So I don't think Microsoft can spoil our party, per se, since we support
their platform. And the key benefit is we go beyond a Microsoft-only solution.
In the enterprise, its always a heterogeneous environment where they need
standards.
David I.: <Shane> "Rick, the essence of Borland's tools was OOP. What is
the big new paradigm for Inprise and how does your R&D help the cause?"
Rick: Great question! As you all know, OOP developed in the ž70s and
ž80s (well, going back to Simula 67!), and is now the "norm" for software
development. The next big paradigm is distributed object computing,
which moves the OOP paradigm into the enterprise with reusable enterprise
objects deployed on application servers. It will be a HUGE market, and we're
well positioned to attack it.
David I.: <Shane> "Del, what's been the biggest problem with the direct
sales model?"
Del: Getting enough direct sales executives. Also we need more
consultants, technical support people, and training folks. Remember, this
is a complete change for the company. In addition to selling through partners,
systems integrators, and VARs, we also sell through retail distribution.
So there are many ways you can buy our product.
Zack: We got some e-mail about when will we fight VB, and I guess that
guy's impatient. We continue to beat VB in productivity, power, and
performance, and we're going to do even more in the future with the next
release. So let me ask the guy who keeps changing his name to play by
the rules this evening.
Thanks.
David I.: <Mike> "Will we continue to see the leapfrog of features
between Delphi and BCB or will the products eventually even?-especially
compatability in the VCL?"
Zack: We certainly like the benefit of having sharing of technology
across the products. For example, features that show up in C++ often end up
in Delphi and vice versa. You'll see some cool features in JBuilder 2
that come from Delphi and the other way around. So leapfrogging helps keep us
responding to what customers ask for.
Rick: As Zack said, we get real leverage by sharing technology between
the various product lines.
David I.: Del, several customers asked what our plans were to enhance
our support and services?
Del: We have consolidated technical support, training, and consultants
under the "Professional Services" umbrella. We are rolling this out in
the U.S. during the first half of the year, Europe in the second half of
the year, and Asia Pacific in the first half of next year.
David I.: <Shane> "Rick, will Inprise ever support 'MSFT JAVA' as seen
in VJ++6.0?"
Rick: Well, you all know that we have a strong commitment to the 100%
Pure Java platform, working with Sun/Javasoft. Microsoft has certainly
approached us about supporting their Windows-specific extensions, but we
haven't made a decision on that topic. The key for us is not "religion," but
listening to customer needs.
David I.: <Apogee> "I notice that a Linux version of InterBase has just
been released. Do you see more Linux support in the future?"
Zack: We're pretty excited about the new Linux version of InterBase.
It's a good way for us to test the market. So far, there have been several
thousand downloads and evals in just a couple of days. In fact, it nearly
knocked out our server capacity and we had to get it on mirror sites around
the world. If we're successful with InterBase on Linux, we'll certainly do
more. Linux is starting to get very popular in corporations as the third
or fourth most prevalent version.
David I.: <Shane> "Zack, the rub on Inprise by many in the media is that
enterprise customers need stability. Do you sense that this attitude is
changing and are customers more comfortable now?
Quantify."
Zack: In the last 18 months, we've definitely had major improvements in
that area. On a standalone basis (e.g., before the pooling of the
acquisition of Visigenic) we had five quarters of revenue growth, four
quarters of profitability, and a consistent strategy. That is very important
for our corporate customers. I think our new name helps show our direction,
which makes them more comfortable. Next week, we have a customer advisory
board meeting in Scotts Valley to meet with some of our largest
customers and partners.
David I.: <BEST> "What is your position in the Microsoft Anti-Trust
suit?"
Del: We are agnostic. We support the customer. If he/she wants
Microsoft, we have products for him/her. If he wants product for the Java
platform, we have product for him. We try to stay out of the religious wars.
David I.: <bsf> what's inprise's position about next Microsoft's OS
releases (Win98, NT)?
Rick: Obviously, we work closely with Microsoft to support their
platform. This includes Win98, NT5, COM+/MTS, etc.
Del: Where is the pizza?
Rick: Del, you need to drink more of that Jolt!
Zack: www.pizzanet.com
David I.: <rhinds> "Java is new and many are still learning. Can we
expect a learning edition from Inprise?"
Zack: Actually, we have just recently release a new JBuilder University
Edition, which is on our Web site and has proven very popular in universities.
We think these folks will graduate to the fullblown version of JBuilder.
We're also looking at including this version in textbooks, supplying
it to labs, etc.
David I.: <serge> "Are there going to be any extensions to Delphi 4
Object Pascal?"
Zack: Delphi is a product that's very near to my heart. In just about
every release we try to have something for everyone, new tools, new
components, new language features, etc. You'll see some interesting things,
but as I said, you'll have to stay tuned.
David I.: <Shane> "Del, in the previous q. c. call, Kathy mentioned
several six-figure deals and two seven-figure deals? How many is "several"?
Roughly how long is the revenue from these deals spread out over time?"
Del: Hi Shane. We continue to garner six- and seven-figure deals. They
generally have deployment revenue that can last several years. I think this
bodes well for the future. Are you the same Shane I have talked to before?
David I.: <Salil> "Rick, JBuilder 2 allows you to build EJBs. Then what
does one do with an EJB using your products?"
Rick: We've been working with Sun on the evolution of EJB, which
provides server-side support for deploying JavaBeans. In our case, we've
chosen to implement EJB support on the new AppServer by layering on top of
CORBA, which provides a very robust infrastructure, scalability, etc.
David I.: <Shane> "Del, pump out those customer žsuccess' press
releases, one every three weeks, is that rate possible?"
David I.: To everyone - you can meet our execs live at the 9th annual
Borland Conference in Denver August 8-12. Check out our Web site at
www.inprise.com/borcon98/
Del: You are the same Shane. Yes, Zack has the assignment to pump out
those customer "success" stories. Zack, Shane wants one every three weeks.
Zack: Thanks Shane! Actually, you'll see more and more of these case
studies, references, etc. on our Web site. I was just speaking with one
of our international marketing managers to make sure we get them from around
the world. We have customers like Sprint, MCI, Ericsson, Nokia, Deutche
Telecom, BT, NationsBank, Credit Suisse, Chrysler, Daimler Mercedes
Benz, NEC, and hundreds of others.
David I.: <MarkRichter> "Is the new AppServer going to impose an extra
layer into normal Web development?"
Rick: No, it works *with* typical HTML applications, but provides for a
robust, scalable, secure infrastructure for deploying middle-tier applications
that work with typical Web server functionality.
Rick: Check out our Web site for the initial strategic whitepaper on the
AppServer, with lots more to come leading up to the Borland Conference.
Del: Oh boy, pizza is here.
David I.: Will *ALL* of Borland's tools integrate with the Application
Server?
Rick: You betcha! While we're excited about the linkage between Java and
CORBA, we're commited to supporting all of our tools for building multi-tier,
application server applications. Again, more details to come ...
David I.: <james_y> "Here's one for us stockholders. One thing we always
hear about Microsoft is their conservative revenue recognition. How
conservative is Borland's revenue recognition? Is revenue deferred to
future quarters? If so, how much? How does this compare with Microsoft's
policy? Or is revenue recognized as soon as stuff is shipped to distributors?"
Del: We are very conservative in our "revenue recognition" policy. A
good and bad situation is that in a growth mode you never have enough revenue
from previous quarters to offset that revenue in which you have to defer.
It is a great situation to be in from a financial situation; but,
frustrating from a revenue situation.
David I.: Borland was not known for great marketing. What are your plans
to fix this?
David I.: Del - What role will acquisitions play in driving revenue
growth?
Del: I don't really care if the revenue comes from internal development
or acquisitions, as long as it fits in with our mission. Our mission is the
radical simplification of development, deployment, and management of
distributed enterprise applications.
David I.: Zack was cut off by a TCP error. He was asked, "Borland is not
known for great marketing.
What are your plans to fix this?"
Zack: We've worked hard in the last year to improve our marketing and
make it much more cost-effective. For example, we exhibit at shows like
SD West, Common, and JavaOne, instead of Comdex. Our ads are much more
consistent and focus on the business benefits, not just the technical
features. We've also done more to work with partners to leverage our direct
selling. We continue to use our Web, which is very cost-effective in reaching
folks.
David I.: Del, your Gross Margins have improved remarkably well in the
last three years. What in your estimation is a long-term GM rate (licenses
only) for Inprise (rough guess is fine)?
Del: Gross margins are higher than we probably can maintain over time as
our services component of the revenue will increase. But, I don't expect
anything lower than 80 percent.
David I.: <Hector> "Borland is talking about future technology and
solutions. How much emphasis will be placed on 'Getting it Right the
First Time'?"
Rick: A lot. Seriously, we're putting much more effort into both
understanding customer requirements, and focusing on quality in our
releases. You should see continuing improvement in responsiveness, including
the new maintenance engineering function we've put into place to respond
quickly to problems that do arise.
David I.: Rick, Borland has some of the finest minds for R&D. How do you
hire more quality people? How do you convince R&D guys to work at Inprise?
Rick: Great question. We've seen a definite increase in resumes over the
past month coming to us. It also helps to have an R&D center up the
Peninsula (San Mateo), that attracts people who can't/won't drive over
the hill to Scotts Valley. How do you attract great R&D people? Give them
an exciting vision (as well as lots of pizza, coke, and a gym to work out in!)
David I.: Del, you did a great job with Tektronix, first fixing it and
then growing it. What do you see as the biggest differences between that job
and this one?
Del: I had more revenue to work with at Tektronix. With less revenue,
decisions are more critical and there is not as much margin for error.
David I.: <Hector> "Can you elaborate some more on the žnew maintenance
engineering function'?"
Rick: Yes, with our enterprise and middleware focus now augmenting the
tools, we need to have people who can respond to critical problems and
issue patches. For example, the Hong Kong Transit Agency runs on our
software, with eight million hits a day. If it goes down, we
can't say, "Wait till the next release!"
David I.: <MarkRichter> "Marketing suggestion: Publish a book which
describes in detail, and at a fundamental level, how to migrate from VB
to Delphi. Also, get a better source migration tool available."
Zack: We have certainly had many customers switch from VB to Delphi to
get higher performance, a better object-oriented approach, and more
scalability with multi-tier MIDAS technology. There are several VB to
Delphi migration tools, but of course, a migration tool can only do
80 percent of the job. Sometimes, there's still a lot of work to migrate
the remaining code. Nonetheless, it's a good opportunity for some enterprising
souls.
David I.: Rick, how is JBuilder doing in the marketplace?
Rick: Glad you asked. We just shipped JBuilder 2, to great reviews.
According to IDC, JBuilder is now one of the two leading Java IDEs in
the market-and we won the Java SuperBowl at SD West!
David I.: Del, the company's cash position has increased nicely the last
few quarters. How do you decide whether to make an acquisition with cash
as opposed to stock?
Del: Pooling is an obvious way for us to go. We need cash to maintain a
strong balance sheet. Our corporate customers look to our financial strength
when making purchase decisions at the CIO level.
Additionally, we consider shareholder value very carefully before we
make any acquisition decision.
Del: This pizza is great. Even Zack's chicken without cheese is o.k.
David I.: <Shane> "Zack, what are Inprise's advantages over IONA?"
Zack: Inprise's ORB technology has much greater performance than IONA.
In particular, VisiBroker was first to offer a Java-based ORB, first with
a native implementatin of IIOP, and now we also have great integration with
the Borland family of development tools. In the summer we'll also introduce
the Integrated Transaction Service (ITS). There's more info. on this on
our Web site about ITS and about our CORBA/Java seminar series. Check it out!
David I.: Everyone /14 minutes to go/ anyone have some REALLY tough
questions?!!
David I.: <Wyatt> "Will JBuilder 2 run faster with 32M RAM than in
JBuilder 1?"
Zack: For serious Java development, you really need to add more memory.
32 Meg is fine for learning. You'll find JBuilder 2 to be a big improvement
with more functionality also.
David I.: Del, has the name change caused any problems in the retail
channel?
Del: Don't forget the Borland Conference in August! Sign up quickly. We
only have room for ten thousand people. Rooms are going fast.
Del: We are very careful to maintain the Borland brand for our
development tools so that there's no confusion in the retail channel.
If you walk into a store, you'll see Borland products and over
time, you'll see the Inrpise Corporation logo on the box also.
David I.: Rick, will you continue to support Entera?
Rick: Yes, we have hundreds of enterprise customers around the world who
have been building large distributed systems with Entera since the early
'90s (see the Hong Kong Transit Agency comment above). We'll continue to
evolve Entera, including increasing bridging technolgies between the
RPC/DCE world and CORBA.
Del: My keyboard is really greasy. My fingers slip all over.
David I.: <Wyatt> "I wonder if Inprise knows the magazine ždevelopers
review' from iTec, a UK-based company who published 'The Delphi
Magazine' too. iTec has a lot of reviews of Inprise development tools
and I enjoyed them very much."
Zack: Yeah, I read Delphi Magazine, Delphi Informant, and Developers
Review. In fact, they did an interview with me earlier this year.
David I.: Do you have any quantifiable feel for how much companies save
in time using Inprise's development tools over the competition?
Zack: Our customers tell us that they have completed projects with our
development tools that have saved them weeks of development time. It's
amazing how much time they save. In some cases, its 10 times more
productive.
Del: Don't forget the Borland Conference in August. We will have pizza!
David I.: Del: What would be a good group of stocks that we can compare
Inprise with? IONA, BEAS (any others), maybe Forte?
Del: IONA & BEAS are good examples. Forte is really a proprietary
solutions company.
David I.: <sasha> When is Inprise going to support the Merced processor?
Even Sun is going to use it for the new version of Solaris.
Rick: We have people actively working with Intel on Merced support. As
you're probably aware, there are non-trivial issues to work through,
but we have some of the best compiler people in the world at Inprise.
David I.: Zack - You're supporting CORBA now. Will you continue to
support Microsoft COM?
Zack: Absolutely! We will continue to support MS COM, DCOM, COM+,
and however it continues to evolve. We have a lot of Delphi and C++
customers and therefore we will continue to do great support for
Microsoft technologies. Whatever customers need, we'll make sure to support it.
David I.: Has Microsoft stopped stealing your R&D people now?
Del: Yes. In fact, we are hiring from Oracle, IBM, and Microsoft. I have
to keep a check on headcount so that we don't hire too many people before
we should.
David I.: Zack - Do you plan to upgrade your documentation?
Zack: We continue to improve our documentation both on line and in print
as well as more examples in the documentation and on our Web site. A lot
of folks have asked us about this, and so its a high priority for us.
David I.: Rick: I get the feeling that your R&D guys have full plates
(not pizzas) in front of them?
Do those guys get any sleep?
Rick: Uh, not much. That's what the Jolt is all about :-)
David I.: To everyone online: send me e-mail messages if you want to do
more of this on a regular basis! Send to davidi at inprise.com
David I.: <PIZZA> It would be nice to have an INPRISE developer-oriented
site like developer.netscape.com
David I.: We do have our newsgroups! And, we have product-specific Web
sites and developer support site as well.
Del: Well guys, the time has come to say goodnight. Thanks for
participating. Go Inprise! This is a great way to talk to you guys.
Thanks again for your loyality and support.
David I.: <MarkRichter> "Any plans to improve direct customer support of
bugs and work-arounds within the Web infrastructure?"
Zack: Yes, we're going to try and have more info. and better support via
the Web. That's a good idea.
Zack: Hope to see you at BorCon in Denver or around the world.
David I.: Okay - it is after 6:30pm PDT. Thanks everyone for joining us.
Again, please send me e-mail if you want more of this - davidi at inprise.com
David I.: just another note - JBuilder 2 is now shipping!
Rick: Goodby, everyone. This was a lot of fun!
Zack: Go Delphi! Go Inprise! Go Hector!