mg.2mrajko,
Da li bi neko iz mg-a(ili bilo ko drugi) bio tako dobar da mi posalje resenja
sa republickog takmicenja iz fizike za srednje skole odrzanog ove godine u
Kragujevcu(samo sa II razred). Molim vas HITNO JE!!!
Milan
mg.3ljubinko,
Mozda ce biti interesantan sledeci tekst iz PC-Special:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 23 - PC-Special disk magazine -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This week we are going to take a look at the Amiga for all
the people who are still writing letters on which computer
they should buy,and what they could take for other things
than office-work.
The PC/Amiga chart:
Amiga (IBM-)PC
Models A1000,A500,A500+,A600 Various formats
A1200,A2000,A2500,A3000
A4000/030,A4000/040
A4000/060
Memory(STD) From 512k to 32MB From 64k to 8MB
Memory(Max) GFX Mem (Chip):8MB Base Mem:1MB
Other mem (Fast):128MB Extended mem:De-
pends on the PC and
its XTD-mem. driver
(Around 128MB Max.)
Processors 8-bits: N/A 8-bits:8088,8086,
16-bits: N/A NEC V20,NEC V30,
16-32 bits:68000,68010 80188,80186
32-bits: 68020,68030, 16-bits:80286 and
68040 80386
32/64 bits:68060* 16-32bits:80486sx
32-bits:80486(dx)
64-bits:Pentium
* The 68060 has a built
in RISC-Slot...
Clockspeed 68000 min 7.14Mhz All 8-bits
max 28Mhz processors run
68010 min 7.14Mhz from 1.4Mhz to 8Mhz
max 16Mhz 80286 min 4Mhz
68020 min 14.28Mhz max 26Mhz
max 50Mhz 80386 min 8Mhz
68030 min 16Mhz max 50Mhz
max 50Mhz 80486 min 10Mhz
68040 min 25Mhz max 33Mhz*
max 50Mhz Pentium min 50Mhz
68060 min 66Mhz max 200Mhz
max 400Mhz * Also configurations
with 2 or 3 486s
available (486dx2/4)
GRAPHIC CAPABILITIES
Resolution From 320x200 to CGA:max 320x200
1472x1472 (More EGA:max 640x350
possible in software) VGA:max 800x600
(PAL/NTSC) SVGA:max1024x768
D-Speed:max1024x768
(All resolutions are
160/320x200 in Lores)
Palette 4096/16777216 CGA:8 (In 2 fixed sets)
or up to 48-bits TANDY:16
graphics with EGA:64
X-Pert-48/32 VGA:256
SVGA:65536
D-Speed:16777216 (24-bits)
Max on Non-AGA:4096 in Lores (320x200)
screen (max) 384x580 Hercules:2
4-16 in higher CGA :4
resolutions EGA :16
256 SPAC in all res. VGA :64/256
AGA:262144-16777216 SVGA :256
in (max)1472x1472 D-Speed :16777216
256 in ALL other Hires (768x480 or more)
resolutions CGA :N/A
X-Pert:Too much colors, EGA :N/A
all in every resolution TANDY :16
VGA :16
SVGA :256
D-Speed :16777216
NOTE:The Diamond Speedster is a 24-bits graphics
card,but one major problem is its speed:
He's even quite slow on a Pentium(!)
Performance VERY FAST screen VERY slow screen update,
update,even on 7.14Mhz even on 66Mhz machines.
machines.Can manipu- VGA looks rather weak,
late screens at due to low resolutions.
enormous speeds,due No hardware scrolling/
to hardware scrolling/ sprites,so the screen
sprites,Copper and jerks in most programs.
Blitter.HAM is a very The only advantage is
nice invention indeed fast 3D update due to
Both PAL/NTSC outputs, byte per pixel.
NTSC can be programmed Blitters ARE available,
as a normal video sync. but NOT as a configuration
One main problem will
always be that a PC offers
an NTSC-Output. (NO PAL)
SOUND CAPABILITIES
Soundchip The Paula,the N/A
best custom sound
chip found in todays
home computers
Output Great;CD quality Poor and very synthetic...
output with third
party hardware
Sound type Amplitude sound 1/2-bit Beep (STD);
(8-bits).Cards FM sound with
available: Soundblaster (PRO)
Sunrize 12/16 bits (Standard upgrade)
Amplitude sound (16-bits FM)
DSP Possible with card Possible with card
DSP-type Stereo Mono
No. of 4,up to 16 with 1 (Standard)
channels software 6-12 Channels max.
with Soundblaster
upgrade(s)
MIDI MIDI interfaces Third party
available interfaces available
Stereo 2 phono connectors No;with Soundblaster,
output yes...
Overall Excellent,due to fast Only -beep- without
Performance interface and excellent upgrades.Sound stinks.
(built-in) sound- With upgrade the sound
hardware,has to be IS 16-bits,but it's FM
heard to be believed like found in very
cheap keyboards,so the
sound is very synthetic
and average.Only of use
for controlling
keyboards with MIDI
HARDWARE CAPABILITIES
Slots Video:SCART,RGB,and Video: digital monitor
composite only (Analogue RGB)
monochrome
TV/Video possible
Audio:2 Phono Audio:N/A
connectors
Parallel,RS232 Serial, Parallel,RS232 Serial
2 Mouse/Joystick 1 Standard Mouse connector
connectors
Mem expansion bus: Mem expansion bus:
Trapdoor slot on A500/ Internal with SIMMS
A600/A1200
Internal on A1500 to
A4000 with SIMMS
Hardware Zorro II edge connector Ordinary PC-expansion
slots on A500 sockets (Amount depends
Smartcard slot on A600/ on PC...)
A1200 (PCMCIA)
3x Zorro II on A1500/
A2000 + 1 AT-PC slot
4x Zorro III on A3000/
A4000
+ 1 AT-PC slot
Keyboard Robust keyboard with Several types available
own interface Most are weak,in
exception of Cherry type
Disk 880k formatted on DD 720k formatted on DD
performance 1.76Mb on HD 1.44Mb on HD
Disk Same as PC Same as Amiga
access
Ram drive Standard Needs to be installed
Hard disk IDE/SCSI/SCSI-2 IDE/SCSI/SCSI-2
interface
Hard disk Slow on IDE (600k/sec) IDE is standard on PC's
Performance Fast on SCSI(2M/sec) what makes access slow
Blistering on SCSI interfaces available
SCSI-2 (5M/sec) but NOT as configuration
Expansions 24/48-bits cards,accel- Video cards for larger
available arators,PC-emulators/ palettes,Co-processors,
bridgeboards (Up to Sound cards,CD-ROM,
486DX-2),Emplant, Modems,Fax-card,Scanners
(Multi system emulati.) Printers and some more
Co-processors,MIDI, (All single upgrades)
Modems,Fax-cards,
Scanners,Printers
Sound samplers,Video-
digitizers,ROM-
upgrades,CD-ROM,Port-
expansion,ChipRam up-
grades and lots more
Hardware Very fast+Multi-tasking Very fast,no multitasking
performance (Hardware processor
strain)
SOFTWARE BASE
Software Very huge,there's Unbeaten,but there's a lot
base something for everyone of crap on the market
overall
Software Very high quality A lot of software is looking
quality software available the same,but there are very
There's nothing you high quality titels available
won't find The PD/Shareware-base offers
the best software on this machine
Graphics Ultimate;fast screen Perfect,but screen-update
quality update makes very is slow and has no multi-
(Business user friendly AND tasking display.
software) multitasking is a
real gem
Graphics Incredible,unbeaten Poor,animation is pretty slow
quality and thats it.Raytracing and there's no cheap ray-
(Video and morphing are just tracing program available.
software) one of the things which Amount of video software
makes the Amiga a very limited and no PAL
complete videostudio
Games Overall:Brilliant,it's Vectors starts to bore after
like having the arcade a while and adventures too.
at home Those are the only games
actually available on PC's
Graphics:Arcade- Arcades don't have adventures
quality When talking about PD/Shareware
this machine offers the best,
Sound:It's like having Sound:Beeps are there
a CD-player on.Sound With Soundblaster very
is so stunning,with synthetic,sample-use very
things like sampled limited due to support for so
speech many soundcards on one game...
Massive Titels: Massive Titels:
(Super-)Stardust Doom
Kid Chaos 7th Guest
Elfmania Alone in the Dark
OVERALL
The Amiga is the best balanced of the two,offering something
for everyone,while the PC is more of use for business only.
The Amiga is relatively a lot cheaper than PC's.The PC was
planned for processing words,since it's launch,and it's
still doing the same.For professional/hobbiyist use,the
Amiga is recommended.It IS true that PC's are fast,but they
only get faster,and speed is not what you need for word-
processing. All we want are a computer that gets BETTER,and
not faster. The PC's are recommended for wordprocessing and
adventure games.
NOTE: If there's thinking of the Amiga being a console,because
they use PC's for office-work,then you are just wrong...
PC's have been there for a much longer time than Amiga's
and had become a standard in business since a long time
ago. The Amiga arrived years after the launch of the PC.
A lot of industries already had PC's,so PC's were already
very well known,and people are mostly buying what they
know. That's why only wiser people buy an Amiga...The
Amiga is used everywhere,where they need more complex
operations than word-processing,because it deserves
being more than just a word-processor. Believe us: An
Amiga is everything more...and is cheap...Buy what you
want by yourself,and don't buy what others tell you...
Think about it yourself...Face the facts!
THE MACHINES COMPARED
PC AMIGA
CPU Power 9 8
Operating system 6 8
Ease of use 6 9
Graphics Cap. 9 10
Sound Cap. 5 9
Games 8 9
Software sup. 10 8
Hardware sup. 9 9
Value for money 7 8
------------------------------------------
Overall 8 9
mg.4pyc.guy,
─── SOUND CAPABILITIES
───
─── Soundchip The Paula,the N/A
─── best custom sound
─── chip found in todays
─── home computers
─── No. of 4,up to 16 with 1 (Standard)
─── channels software 6-12 Channels max.
─── with Soundblaster
─── upgrade(s)
Grohotom se nasmijah...:)) Neka se malo informisu sta je GUS-Max ili
SB32AWE...;) Zasto trositi reci, vidi se da je celo poredjenje pisano
sa namerom da uvelica Amigu.
Pyc
mg.5supers,
>> Mozda ce biti interesantan sledeci tekst iz PC-Special:
Da, ali zašto u ovu temu?
BTW, tekst je već zastareo, a u međuvremenu se PC na mnogim poljima
obuhvaćenim u tekstu popravio.
mg.6mastermind,
ă─> Mozda ce biti interesantan sledeci tekst iz PC-Special:
poslao si na pogrešnu adresu :)
MasterMind
mg.7igorsedam,
Hi!
Treba mi mala pomoc. Jel mogu da mi se jave na mail oni koji su
mg zavrsili prosle ili pretprosle godine.
Igor
mg.8supers,
Khmm... elem...
Pa, eto, imam drugaricu, druga godina MG i za seminarski treba da napiše
sopstvenu aplikaciju... A znate kako je već, kad se neko ne bavi
kompjuterima... Ako neko ne razume ni funkcionisanje file sistema, ne
pomaže svo teorijsko znanje paskala... Pa, ako neko ima aplikacijicu
viška, makar nedovršenu ili bagiranu... O:) Bilo bi lepo & humano :)
Spasioci neka se jave na mail O:)
mg.9vitez.koja,
#=> Bilo bi lepo & humano :)
Bilo bi lepo i humano od tebe da drugarici objasniš kako joj
računari ne ginu, i kako će pre ili kasnije (na fakultetu)
*morati* to da nauči, na mnogo teži način.
#=> ............... Ako neko ne razume ni funkcionisanje
#=> file sistema, ne pomaže svo teorijsko znanje paskala...
"Teorijsko znanje paskala" ? :X Šta bi to moglo biti?
mg.10gerber,
YR>*> Bilo bi lepo i humano od tebe da drugarici objasniš kako joj
YR>*> računari ne ginu, i kako će pre ili kasnije (na fakultetu)
YR>*> *morati* to da nauči, na mnogo teži način.
A možda je to tražena aplikacija koja će omogućiti
"interaktivan" pristup novo-otvorenim javnim bazama
ocena i ostalih učeničkih elemenata ;)
Ako već ovde ima tema za Matematičku Gimnaziju, mogli
bi i da dobijemo neki izveštaj o uspešnoj saradnji pominjanih
baza sa roditeljima kojima su, prema vestima, namenjene
kako bi mogli da steknu direktan uvid u ocene i izostanke
svoje dece.
mg.11supers,
>> Bilo bi lepo i humano od tebe da drugarici objasniš kako joj
>> računari ne ginu, i kako će pre ili kasnije (na fakultetu)
>>* morati* to da nauči, na mnogo teži način.
Pa, s obzirom da je prošle godine prvi put sela za računar, poprilično
je uznapredovala sa mrtve tačke. Ali, možeš li da zamisliš šok kada je
pred tobom IDE za koji ne znaš ni šta je, a odmah treba pisati programe?
Problem je u tome što se snalaženje na komu već podrazumeva, a oni za
koje su to španska sela su prinuđeni da to već u prvoj godini u letu
stiču sliku o tome, i nikad kvalitetnu, naravno.
>> "Teorijsko znanje paskala" ? :X Šta bi to moglo biti?
Pa, to ti je nezgrapan izraz za ono što se može steći u MG ako si došao
da radiš matematiku ili fiziku a računari su te spopali kao grom iz
vedra neba. Ne znam da li si ti možda išao u MG, da ti ne pričam o onome
što znaš bolje od mene. Ukratko, to ti je kada neko radi školske Pascal
zadačiće koji se zapravo svode na matematičke i logičke probleme, mada
složene (primenjuju se procedure, funkcije...) a da još uvek ima
maglovitu predstavu o tome šta se zapravo zbiva na disku, kakve su to
cake sa raznim vrstama memorije i zašto toliko načina za korišćenje
memorije...
Svako inteligentan može da izađe na kraj sa problemima logičke prirode
koji se forsiraju u školskim programerskim zadacima. Ali oni od njih
traže da do kraja godine napišu aplikaciju, a to se u školi ne predaje.
Ako neko tek uči osnovne principe user interfacea sa stanovišta
korisnika, kako će da se pozabavi tim problemom sa stanovišta
programera?
mg.12kenza,
(;> bi i da dobijemo neki izvestaj o uspesnoj saradnji pominjanih
(;> baza sa roditeljima kojima su, prema vestima, namenjene
Taj sistem je cist proizvod zna se kakvog marketinga gosp.
Raspopovica. Marketing je takav da kada se cuje nesto o MG-u, u 90%
slucajeva je to cista laz. Najsmesnije je sto su o njemu i profesori
racunarskih predmeta u MG-u prvi put culi u Politici :>
mg.13kenza,
(;> je uznapredovala sa mrtve tacke. Ali, mozes li da zamislis sok kada je
(;> pred tobom IDE za koji ne znas ni sta je, a odmah treba pisati
(;> programe?
Uvek je bilo tako, i ko se potrudi, raspita, vrlo brzo mu se to i
isplati. U svakom odeljenju ima najmanje 2-3 coveka koji se u to vrlo
dobro razumeju, a neko od njih verovatno ima i strpljenja....
(;> koji se forsiraju u skolskim programerskim zadacima. Ali oni od njih
(;> traze da do kraja godine napisu aplikaciju, a to se u skoli ne predaje.
Poznajuci sve profane koji tamo trenutno predaju, ta 'aplikacija'
moze da bude i program za racunanje proseka ocena. Imate li vi starije
drugove koji su nesto vec pisali ? Uzmete, prostudirate, izmenite da lici
na nesto sto vama treba i gotov posao :)
Kroz MG se sto se tice nekih stvari ljudi veoma uspesno provlace. Cak
toliko uspesno da na kraju 4. godine ne znaju sta je tpc.exe ili tako neke
slicne stvari. Ima ljudi koji to rade sa matematikom (k'o neki ovde O;),
ali matematiku posle moraju da nauce zbog prijemnog i mature. A i valjda se
malo opamete :). Posto se 'informatika' ne polaze ni na maturi ni na
prijemnom, oni koji se sa tim izvuku, a posle se ne opamete, debelo su se
zeznuli.
LM, poenta je u tome da na neki nacin treba naterati te ljude da to
doobro nauce. Ako vec njima samima nije jasno da im to treba, to neko mora
da im objasni. Bilo milom, bilo silom. ;) A i nije sve bas toliko tesko i
nerazumljivo.
mg.14vitez.koja,
#=> Ali, možeš li da zamisliš šok kada je pred tobom IDE za
#=> koji ne znaš ni šta je, a odmah treba pisati programe?
Crni Stanislave, gleda te u oči i laže ;)
#=> Pa, to ti je nezgrapan izraz za ono što se može steći u
#=> MG ako si došao da radiš matematiku ili fiziku a
#=> računari su te spopali kao grom iz vedra neba. Ne znam
#=> da li si ti možda išao u MG, da ti ne pričam o onome
Išao sam u MG, te znam da to što pričaš (što su tebi pričali?)
nije tačno. Dok se stigne do IDEa i pisanja programa može da se
osedi, a može i mnogo toga da se nauči. Kažem može jer, na
žalost, ne mora; programiranje u MG još uvek ima status između
muzičkog i španskog sela, tako da se izrazim, te dolazi do
paradoksalne situacije da jedan od nosećih predmeta može da se
prođe sa dobrom ocenom a da se _ništa_ ne nauči. Profesori su tu
jedini krivci.
Tvoja drugarica koristi taj neodgovorni stav profesora na prvim
godinama, i misli da je povukla boga za bradu što nije ništa
naučila kada je trebalo. Upozori je da nisu ni svi profesori
programiranja u MG takvi blesani, a pogotovo da ni jedan profesor
na fakultetu neće imati razumevanja za "jadno dete koje je došlo
da radi matematiku i fiziku, a računari je spopali".