KOMUNIK.5

30 Sep 1993 - 12 Feb 1994

Topics

  1. modemi (639)
  2. fax (189)
  3. kom.programi (117)
  4. procomm (44)
  5. telemate (485)
  6. telix (44)
  7. protokoli (72)
  8. hackers (181)
  9. jupak (133)
  10. email (503)
  11. vax (438)
  12. strani.sistemi (312)
  13. yu.bbs (704)
  14. ptt (646)
  15. razno (479)

Messages - strani.sistemi

strani.sistemi.104 dejanr, -> #102, m.hristodulo
>> Evo spiska BBSova iz Slovenije, Hrvatske i Srbije. Preuzeto sa ABM BBSa. Hvala. Ja sam na osnovu tog spiska (ili nekog njegovog izdanja?) pre desetak dana napravio novu verziju EXYUBBS.TXT, ali sam malo oklevao da stavim u direktorijum NOVOSTI jer sam hteo da proverim postoje li još neki BBS-ovi u Hrvatskoj za koje mi neki rekoše da ne rade. Bilo kako bilo, eno ga EXYUBBS.TXT na mestu, pa ako ima primedbi, kažite!
strani.sistemi.105 zonjic, -> #97, balsa
> *> tel. 99-386-61-154-156 (valjda 12 linija, ali nisam bas siguran > za broj) > > Zvao sam ovaj broj večeras, ali izgleda da je promenjen....javlja se > automat. Hristodulo je ispravio ovaj broj, naime ja sam zaboravio na promenu koja se desila u PTTLJ a koja vazi od 01.10.93. (dodavanje dvojke!) i o kojoj se mnogo pisalo (citaj pljuvalo) na slvenackom konferencijskom sistemu na DECnetu. Rade
strani.sistemi.106 zonjic, -> #98, ppekovic
> Kada sam se ja učlanjivao tamo, pisalo je da je za korisnike iz > Srbije učlanjivanje besplatno i da ne moraš čak ni razglednicu da > šalješ. e, sad ne znam, ovo sto sam ja rekao tvrdi Boris Horvat, cosysop
strani.sistemi.107 zonjic, -> #101, m.hristodulo
> >> tel. 99-386-61-154-156 > > Novi broj ABM BBSa je 1254-156. Pa ga sada lepo rehashujemo pa dobijemo civilizovanu (amersku) verziju three by four: 125-4156 ;)
strani.sistemi.108 zonjic, -> #102, m.hristodulo
> ║Srbija║ > ╠══════╩═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ > ║Dinasys 2:382/100 (011) 615-153 ZyX ║ > ║Fenix 2:382/104 (011) 414-312 9600 ║ > ║Velcom 2:382/103 (011) 344-263 14400 ║ jes' da ih nema mnogo, al odabrase bar ono sto vredi ;) DejRane, posalji kolezi spisak BBS-ova sa Sezama. (EIGER::HORVAT)
strani.sistemi.109 pedjak, -> #102, m.hristodulo
> ║Dinasys 2:382/100 (011) 615-153 ZyX ║ > ║Fenix 2:382/104 (011) 414-312 9600 ║ > ║Velcom 2:382/103 (011) 344-263 14400 ║ Jel' oni stvarno nemaju pojma da ovde postoji još neki bbs ?
strani.sistemi.110 magician, -> #108, zonjic
­=> DejRane, posalji kolezi spisak BBS-ova sa Sezama. (EIGER::HORVAT) Koliko sam ja ukapirao, na listi su samo BBS-ovi u FidoNet-u... Zato ih je samo tri!
strani.sistemi.111 dejanr, -> #108, zonjic
>> DejRane, posalji kolezi spisak BBS-ova sa Sezama. (EIGER::HORVAT) Poslao sam mu pre nekog vremena. Izgleda da su na spisak stavili samo one koji su na FIDONET-u.
strani.sistemi.112 m.hristodulo, -> #106, zonjic
>>> Kada sam se ja uclanjivao tamo, pisalo je da je >>> za korisnike iz Srbije uclanjivanje besplatno i >>> da ne moras cak ni razglednicu da saljes. >> >> e, sad ne znam, ovo sto sam ja rekao tvrdi Boris >> Horvat, cosysop Upravo idem da posaljem razglednicu. Negde u procesu registracije (popunjavanja raznih upitnika), je pisalo da korisnici iz Srbije, umesto pretplate, treba da posalju razglednicu i dobice godinu dana full acces. Cak sam dobio i poruku od Borisa u kojoj me on poziva da to ucinim. To je stil, nema sta, :)
strani.sistemi.113 m.hristodulo, -> #107, zonjic
>> three by four: 125-4156 1254-156 stavih da bi se uocila ta dvojka. ;)
strani.sistemi.114 astral, -> #109, pedjak
HAJ, NEHAJ !! şşş > ║Dinasys 2:382/100 (011) 615-153 şşş > ║Fenix 2:382/104 (011) 414-312 şşş > ║Velcom 2:382/103 (011) 344-263 şşş şşş Jel' oni stvarno nemaju pojma da ovde postoji jos neki bbs ? Ah, pa naravno da imaju pojma, zato i objavljuju ovakve gluposti !! Zamisli sta bi se samo desilo da neko tamo cuje za Sezam koji ima 15 linija, a moze da radi i na slovenackom !!?? Pa niko vise ne bi zvao slovenacke BBS-ove !! A i ovako oni misle da su genijalci, pa ih lakse za*ebavamo !! :)))) Srbija -- 381, Slovenija -- 8088.... CENZURISANI.
strani.sistemi.115 snemcev,
Jel ima neko informaciju o g-dinu Milanu čivkoviću iz Instituta za ekonomske nauke, koji je svojevremeno bio glavni čovek po pitanju pristupa bazama podataka Evropske zajednice?
strani.sistemi.116 spantic, -> #109, pedjak
>> ║Dinasys 2:382/100 (011) 615-153 ZyX ║ >> ║Fenix 2:382/104 (011) 414-312 9600 ║ >> ║Velcom 2:382/103 (011) 344-263 14400 ║ > > Jel' oni stvarno nemaju pojma da ovde postoji još neki bbs ? Ne, to je samo spisak BBSova sa adresama na FIDOnetu.
strani.sistemi.117 deki.dj, -> #115, snemcev
-=> Jel ima neko informaciju o g-dinu Milanu čivkoviću iz Instituta za -=> ekonomske nauke, koji je svojevremeno bio glavni čovek po pitanju -=> pristupa bazama podataka Evropske zajednice? Gospodin Milan čivković je tamo gde je i bio. U institutu. Ako je nekome potreban njegov broj telefona neka se javi u MAIL.
strani.sistemi.118 dejanr,
Ko može da koristi Internet... u USA. Pročitajte :) ========== internet/management #12, from nbirkett, 900 chars, Tue Nov 9 21:47:47 1993 Comment(s). ---------- TITLE: Who can use Internet I'm not sure where this should go, so let's try here. Our unniversity has an Internet connection via O-Net. We have some PC's with Ethernet connections using the 'ftp' company tcp/ip software. With this software, you can 'telnet' directly from the PC to remote machines. Now, these PCs are set-up in a public use computer lab. Since they run MS-DOS, there is no log-on/password required for use. Thus, any of our students can use any machine and access the Internet. Here's where the confusion comes in. I have been told that no-one can legally use the Internet unless they pass through some sort of log-in process so that messages (?packets) have an identifying label. Our machines all have Internet addresses and names within a registered domain. I would have thought that this would be enough ID but I'm told not. Anyone care to comment? Thanks, NIck Birkett. ========== internet/management #13, from thefuzz, 904 chars, Tue Nov 9 22:40:16 1993 Comment to 12. Comment(s). More refs to 12. ---------- You have been told incorrectly. The IP address and domain are all that the protocols need and all that the protocols really support. There is no mysterious login sequence into the Internet. The only logins will be on remote hosts similer to regular user logins. It is true that various portions of the Internet are restricted from commercial use. These are mostly the FSF net which is becomming an ever smaller fraction of the net every day. Commercial networks (like UUNET & PSInet which are members of CIX) ensure that their routers do not pass packets from subscribers who have not been qualified for accessing the NSF net. In most cases there are sufficient paths available to reach the destination. Unfortunately, mail routing agents often fail to deliver messages when the route would pass through the NSF net since the domain system has no method to describe a "commercial" route. thefuzz ========== internet/management #14, from eks, 1558 chars, Wed Nov 10 02:19:40 1993 Comment to 13. ---------- You may not have been told incorrectly. Technically thefuzz is right: the protocols don't have a login mechanism. Politically, however, there are definite concerns. Besides NSFnet, ONet also has non-commercial usage restrictions (ONet is the way universities and research organizations in Ontario have traditionally connected to the Internet; I believe it's basically a consortium run by said outfits.) If I recall correctly, ONet's rules say that: - a site may not send commerical traffic over the ONet. - a site's security must be such that if any of its users generate forbidden traffic, that user can be identified. - a site must put (and be technically able to enforce) the above restrictions on any other site with which it communicates (eg. systems to which it provides UUCP-only news and mail feeds). If I'm correct, the second of those points prohibits the situation described (DOS machines with Internet access, and without physical- access restrictions). The third point is, of course, quite unenforceable; I suppose this could be considered a weakness of the TCP/IP protocol suite. A year or two ago, ONet decided to start actually enforcing those rules. This was in large part responsible for the creation of UUNET Canada. I don't know a lot about this; I just remember listening to many months worth of discussions about it at meetings of a local UNIX users' group here in Toronto. Try posting your question to can.usrgroup, which is read by some of the people who actually contributed to the discussions I only listened to :-) ========== internet/management #15, from hbj, 343 chars, Wed Nov 10 11:56:22 1993 Comment to 12. Comment(s). ---------- Having read the comments here, thus far, here's another cat amongst the pigeons. What about the number of "anon" servers that are cropping up here and there. As far as I can tell, a user can use these things to send at least, mail, and who knows what else without identifying him/herself. Are these, then in breach of internet whatever? Henry ========== internet/management #16, from thefuzz, 448 chars, Wed Nov 10 19:41:39 1993 Comment to 15. Comment(s). ---------- Apparently this is an ONet restriction. It would appear that you couldn't put a public access site on ONet without some form of positive user authentication which could be pretty difficult to accomplish. It is obvious (to me) that if a public access site is not on ONet but users there access a site which IS on ONet, then the public access site and its users have done nothing wrong since they have not signed any agreement with ONet. thefuzz ========== internet/management #17, from eks, 2894 chars, Thu Nov 11 20:06:45 1993 Comment to 16. ---------- It may be obvious; unfortunately it's not the case :-( Though the public-access site has made no agreement with ONet, it *has* made an agreement with its upstream feed, which has made an agreement with ONet... The "lengthy discussions" to which I referred in my previous post concerned precisely how to maintain UUCP<->Internet connectivity in the face of ONet's decision to start enforcing its rules. This was major cause for concern because, at the time, ONet was the only source of Internet connectivity in Ontario. As I mentioned, UUNET Canada was started more or less as a result of the ONet clampdown,
strani.sistemi.119 snemcev, -> #112, m.hristodulo
>> Cak sam dobio i poruku od Borisa u kojoj me on poziva da to ucinim. To sistem sam generiše. ;) Btw, jel neko istom pristupio preko Jupak-a? Ne mogu da uradim download ni jedne datoteke, non-stop CRC error. Jel 4800 bps prebrzo?
strani.sistemi.120 domana, -> #108, zonjic
~~~> ║Dinasys 2:382/100 (011) 615-153 ZyX ║ Nikad cuo. Da li ovaj postoji u srbbs.txt? Pyc
strani.sistemi.121 m.hristodulo, -> #114, astral
>> Zamisli sta bi se samo desilo da neko tamo cuje >> za Sezam koji ima 15 linija, a moze da radi i na >> slovenackom !!?? Na ABM BBSu postoji cak i konferencija koja se zove SEZAM. Boris je bio clan Sezama. Cak je valjda nudio i saradnju? ABM BBS ima 12 linija, a do nove godine imace i 20. Povezan je sa svim vaznim mrezama (DECNet, InterNet, ima svoj NUA). Jedina slaba tacka mu je sto radi na PCBoardu. Sve to si mogao da cujes u Borisovom prilogu u emisiji Bajt92.
strani.sistemi.122 skrajnalic, -> #121, m.hristodulo
&> mrezama (DECNet, InterNet, ima svoj NUA). Jedina Jel? Koji je NUA? Pozdrav..... skr
strani.sistemi.123 a.kircanski, -> #121, m.hristodulo
_-=> slaba tacka mu je sto radi na PCBoardu. Kako bre na PCBoard-u? Ja znam kad sam zvao sa Interneta, ima neki svoj softver, (jest da je ružan al šta ćeš) i nije PCBoard! Možda su ga promenili.. A inače kad se zove sa Internet-a, užžžžaasssnooo je sporo :( pozdrav
strani.sistemi.124 m.hristodulo,
E, ovo je jako zanimljivo, :) Cela datoteka je prikacena uz poruku. Other BBSes of Interest ----------------------- AT&T Support 201-769-6397 Panasonic Communica'n Sys. 201-863-7845 USNO Time of Day 202-653-0351 Ashton-Tate 213-324-2188 Quarterdeck Office Syst. 213-396-3904 ProComm Support 314-474-8477 AMI (Bios) 404-246-5825 Crosstalk Communications 404-641-1803 Hayes Public BBS 404-446-6336 IBM PC Users Group 404-835-6600 Core International 407-241-2929 DPT (Dist Process Tech) 407-831-6432 APCUG (Association of 408-439-9367 Adaptec 408-945-7727 Award (Bios) 408-370-3139 Borland 408-439-9096 Brown Bag Software 408-371-7654 Cornerstone Technology 408-435-8943 Data Technology Corp 408-942-4197 Fujitsu America, Inc. 408-944-9899 Genoa 408-943-1231 Kodiak Technology 408-452-0677 McAffee Assoc 408-988-4004 National Semiconductor 408-245-0671 Norton/Symantec 408-973-9598 Plus Development 408-434-1664 Samsung Info. Syst. 408-434-5684 Seagate Technology 408-438-8771 Wyse Technology 408-922-4400 PKWare (PKZip) 414-354-8670 Everex Systems 415-438-4650 Headland Technology 415-656-0503 Hercules Computer Tech. 415-540-0621 LAN (magazine) 415-267-7640 Logitech 415-795-0408 Mouse Systems 415-683-0617 Orchid Technology 415-683-0327 Silicon Valley Computers 415-967-8081 TOPS Support 415-769-8874 Trantor Systems 415-656-5159 Trident 415-691-1016 ATI Technologies 416-756-4591 Telix Support 416-439-9399 Central Point Software 503-690-6650 Intel Support 503-645-6275 Fifth Generation Systems 504-295-3344 Hayes Microcomputer Products 510-795-0408 Perstore 602-894-4605 Live Wire BBS, The 609-235-5297 Digiboard Inc. 612-922-5604 Ontrack Computer Systems 612-937-0860 Byte (magazine) 617-861-9764 U.S.Robotics 708-982-5092 AST Research 714-852-1872 Gibson Research 714-830-3300 Mace, Paul Software 714-240-7459 Toshiba America 714-837-4408 Western Digital 714-753-1234 Hayes Microcomputer Products 800-874-2937 Zenith Data Systems 800-888-3058 Zenith Data Systems 800-888-3058 WordPerfect Corp. 801-225-4414 Computer Peripherals Inc 805-499-9646 Tech Data 813-538-7090 Always Technology 818-597-0275 DTK Computer 818-333-6548 Micropolis Corp. 818-709-3310 denver.zip
strani.sistemi.125 m.hristodulo, -> #123, a.kircanski
>> Kako bre na PCBoard-u? Ja znam kad sam zvao sa ABM BBS u Ljubljani radi na PCBoardu 15.0. Onaj u Zagrebu ne znam na cemu radi. Preko X.25 mozete stici do ABM BBSa u Ljubljani, ako pozovete NUA 62931611003025, i prijavite se kao ABMBBS.
strani.sistemi.126 zonjic, -> #104, dejanr
> neki BBS-ovi u Hrvatskoj za koje mi neki rekoše da ne rade. Bilo > kako bilo, eno ga EXYUBBS.TXT na mestu, pa ako ima primedbi, kažite! Eh, da zivimo u CRO prozvali bi te jugonostalgicarem ;))
strani.sistemi.127 spantic, -> #119, snemcev
> Btw, jel neko istom pristupio preko Jupak-a? Ne mogu da uradim download > ni jedne datoteke, non-stop CRC error. Jel 4800 bps prebrzo? Ja sam pristupio, isti problem.
strani.sistemi.128 spantic, -> #120, domana
> ~~~> ║Dinasys 2:382/100 (011) 615-153 ZyX ║ > > Nikad cuo. Da li ovaj postoji u srbbs.txt? To je specijalizovani BBS. Novinski servis.
strani.sistemi.129 dejanr, -> #120, domana
>> > Dinasys 2:382/100 (011) 615-153 ZyX >> >> Nikad cuo. Da li ovaj postoji u srbbs.txt? Ne postoji. Ako sam dobro razumeo, to je BBS zatvorenog tipa preko koga bi trebalo da ide veza BBS-ova iz YU sa FIDOnet-om. Ne znam da li ta veza uopšte funkcioniše i kako.
strani.sistemi.130 dejanr, -> #122, skrajnalic
>> > mrezama (DECNet, InterNet, ima svoj NUA). Jedina >> >> Jel? Koji je NUA? ABM BBS nema baš svoj NUA, ali možeš da pozoveš EIGER (NUA 62931611003025) i tamo, na prompt Username:, otkucaš ABMBBS. Onda EIGER modemom pozove ABM i pojavi se njegov prompt. Dakle, nešto kao outdial.
strani.sistemi.131 niklaus, -> #119, snemcev
(:> Btw, jel neko istom pristupio preko Jupak-a? Ne mogu da uradim (:> download ni jedne datoteke, non-stop CRC error. Jel 4800 bps (:> prebrzo? Ja fino "cepam" na 1200, a CPS "leti" oko 108... (; (:niklaus:)
strani.sistemi.132 niklaus, -> #121, m.hristodulo
(:> se zove SEZAM. Boris je bio clan Sezama. Cak je Username=borish! Više ne zove. Šta ćete - njima je skupo... (: ): (:niklaus:)
strani.sistemi.133 snemcev, -> #131, niklaus
>> Ja fino "cepam" na 1200, a CPS "leti" oko 108... (; Pa šta da radim, da se vratim sa 4800 na 1200? Neka hvala, redovan modem mi je na toj brzini. PS NHF!
strani.sistemi.134 snemcev, -> #130, dejanr
>> ...na prompt Username:, otkucaš ABMBBS. Onda EIGER modemom pozove ABM >> i pojavi se njegov prompt. Dakle, nešto kao outdial. Jesi siguran da ovako radi? Neki put mi se odziv pojavi u roku od 0.1 sec, a neki pute se načekam, pa nikad da se javi...
strani.sistemi.135 snemcev, -> #125, m.hristodulo
>> Preko X.25 mozete stici do ABM BBSa u >> Ljubljani, ako pozovete NUA 62931611003025, i >> prijavite se kao ABMBBS. Jedina mana je što ništa nećete moći da skinete, već samo da čitate on-line.
strani.sistemi.136 dcolak, -> #121, m.hristodulo
│ mrezama (DECNet, InterNet, ima svoj NUA). Jedina │ slaba tacka mu je sto radi na PCBoardu. Ne slažem se sa tobom da mu je to slaba tačka. Šta više to je odlična stvar, jer se mogu koristiti OLR-ovi na koje su svi "obični" korisnici navikli! Da ne pominjem vrlo lako povezivanje sa ovim našim SetNET-om i sličnim NET-ovima... To je stvar ukusa... Sledge DAMMIR!
strani.sistemi.137 .bata., -> #136, dcolak
ŔŔŔ odlicna stvar, jer se mogu koristiti OLR-ovi na koje su svi ŔŔŔ "obicni" korisnici navikli! Nije to sasvim tacno ! Npr. i na domacem software-u postoje konvertori koji prebacuju u QWK format. Npr. skinete poruke sa pingvin bbs-a i startujete svoj omiljeni QWK off-line reader odgovorite ne interesantne poruke i posaljete .rep Sta se na BBS-u desava kod koverzije za vas je potpuno transparentno. bata
strani.sistemi.138 astral, -> #121, m.hristodulo
HAJ, NEHAJ !! │ŢQUOTEŮ│ Sve to si mogao da cujes u Borisovom prilogu │ŢQUOTEŮ│ u emisiji Bajt92. Mog'o sam, al' nisam :)).... CANE.
strani.sistemi.139 dejanr, -> #134, snemcev
>> > ...na prompt Username:, otkucaš ABMBBS. Onda EIGER modemom pozove ABM >> > i pojavi se njegov prompt. Dakle, nešto kao outdial. >> >> Jesi siguran da ovako radi? Prilično siguran... tako mi reče Darko Bulat koji je vlasnik EIGER-a. Primetićeš da ako je neko već na vezi na ABMBBS-u, drugi ne može da ga dobije ovim putem (tj. to bi primetio ako bi imao username na EIGER-u pa rekao SHOW USERS, video ABMBBS i onda i ti probao da se prijaviš na njega odatle.
strani.sistemi.140 spantic, -> #130, dejanr
> i tamo, na prompt Username:, otkucaš ABMBBS. Onda EIGER modemom pozove > ABM i pojavi se njegov prompt. Dakle, nešto kao outdial. Zar nisu i Eiger i ABM locirani kod Darka Bulata?
strani.sistemi.141 dcolak, -> #137, .bata.
│ Nije to sasvim tacno ! Npr. i na domacem software-u postoje konvertori koji │ prebacuju u QWK format. Npr. skinete poruke sa pingvin bbs-a i startujete │ svoj omiljeni QWK off-line reader odgovorite ne interesantne poruke i │ posaljete .rep Sta se na BBS-u desava kod koverzije za vas je potpuno Pa dobro zašto to ranije niste rekli? :) Kakva je sintaxa, tj. kojom komandom se kidaju poruke a kojom šalju .REP paketi na Pingvin BBS? Sledge DAMMIR!
strani.sistemi.142 snemcev, -> #139, dejanr
>> Primetićeš da ako je neko već na vezi na ABMBBS-u, drugi ne može da >> ga dobije ovim putem (tj. to bi primetio ako bi imao username na >> EIGER-u pa rekao SHOW USERS, video ABMBBS i onda i ti probao da se >> prijaviš na njega odatle. A otud čekanje... treba se samo setiti! :)
strani.sistemi.143 fancy, -> #141, dcolak
ŮŢ> Kakva je sintaxa, tj. kojom komandom se kidaju poruke break message split message kidaj miško! %s desintegrate message rip message tear message .F nO morE.
strani.sistemi.144 .bata., -> #141, dcolak
ŔŔŔ Kakva je sintaxa, tj. kojom komandom se kidaju poruke a kojom ŔŔŔ salju .REP paketi na Pingvin BBS? Jos ne moze zato sto je u fazi alfa testiranja :(( al' mislim da na Sezamu postoji neki QWK konvertor (dejane ispravi me ako gresim :) ) bata
strani.sistemi.145 dejanr, -> #140, spantic
>> Zar nisu i Eiger i ABM locirani kod Darka Bulata? Eiger jeste, ABM, koliko znam, nije.
strani.sistemi.146 .bale.,
Leaders of Community Networking _________________________________________________________________ People Who Create Online Communities On rare occasions a progressive local government sets up a community network, like PEN in Santa Monica, California. But usually, networks are created by groups of ordinary citizens -- or not so ordinary ones, as we shall see -- in the face of incredible technical, financial, and political barriers. This article describes the work of seven people who have played important roles in community networking, and offers a brief statement about government policy from each one. Some of the leaders discuss what community networks need from the government in order to prosper, while others suggest what the networks can do to change how government runs. Although their projects span a broad array of topics and locales, these people share a sense of vision, a commitment to hard work, and the achievement of impressive results. Often they have not been paid for their networking activities, but manage to squeeze the work into other jobs or do it on the side. The article begins with two political activists, Evelyn Pine and Richard Civille, whose experiences span a wide range of networking activities. Pine and Civille have drawn some deep conclusions about the value of telecomputing in public life. The article continues with Anne Fallis, Frank Odasz, and Dave Hughes. Each has become famous in the telecomputing world by building strong communities through the very simple, low-tech means of electronic bulletin boards. All of them are now engaged in broader initiatives: state-wide, nationally, and even internationally. Next comes Tom Grundner, leader of the Free-Net movement, the single largest collection of community networks today. [GET] another article that describes what Free-Nets offer. Last is an international perspective from Dutch system administrator Felipe Rodriquez. While community networking places a high value on access to information, it doesn't stop with facts. At the heart of any such project is the desire to build a feeling of community. Often the project seeks to improve the opportunities for its members to talk together, share resources in new ways, or find work. And perhaps most of all, community networking seeks to get citizens more involved in governing themselves. What the leaders in this article tell us is that community networking is powerful--but fragile. Its spread requires supportive government policies, an educated public, and a feeling of commitment by people to their communities. In the United States, the decisions made for the National Information Infrastructure over the next few years may determine whether community networks remain scattered experiments or succeed in reaching millions. EVELYN PINE: ELECTRONIC DEMOCRACY MUST COME FROM US RICHARD CIVILLE: THE CIVIC PROMISE OF THE NAT'L INFORMATION INFRASTRUCTURE ANNE FALLIS: PEOPLE USING NETWORKS CAN HAVE AN IMPACT ON GOVERNMENT FRANK ODASZ: COMMUNITY NETWORKS BENEFIT FEDERAL GOALS DAVE HUGHES: THE ELECTRONIC PUBLIC INTEREST VERSUS THE PRIVATE GOOD TOM GRUNDNER: A NREN THAT INCLUDES EVERYONE FELIPE RODRIQUEZ: THE WORLDWIDE IMPACT OF NETWORK ACCESS For further information: * [GO] to the server alfred.carleton.ca for historical and policy papers related to Free-Nets and other community networking. * [GO] to a University of Saskatchewan server for background * [GO] for articles on community networking maintained by the Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility. * [GO] for statements from the Center for Civic Networking. [GO] for information maintained by the WELL on a number of community networks. _(Go to first community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
strani.sistemi.147 .bale.,
[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Online Activism in California _________________________________________________________________ By the People and For the People Bill AB1624, drafted by Rep. Debra Bowen, is on the verge of passage into law with Governor Wilson's signature. Its success was largely due to the online coordination efforts of Jim Warren. A columnist for _MicroTimes, Government Technology_, and _BoardWatch_, Warren organized and chaired the first Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy. Warren relied on the Internet as a crucial tool in communicating with supporters and opponents of the bill. The bill's orchestration might be viewed as one of the first "virtual" grassroots lobbying efforts. The bill will make available over the Internet: legislative findings and declarations, meeting notices and agendas, information concerning bills (history, status, analysis, voting), proceedings of the houses and committees of the Legislature, and statutory enactments Eventually, as part of the bill's mandate, the complete California Constitution will go online. The bill is one of the first of its kind to make previously obscure government data freely available online. AB1624 addresses the remarkable fact that the California government actually ends up paying for its own data in many cases. Here's how it works: commercial databases sign contracts to maintain and format large amounts of governmental data. Then, local governments and state agencies subscribe to the commercial services and pay sizable fees to search and retrieve their own data. According to Warren, * Legislative Counsel collected $295,000 in 1992 from Legi-Tech and State Net * California Department of General Services paid Legi-Tech and State Net $285,000 in 1992 * California cities paid about $300,000 in 1992 to State Net for legislative information * California counties paid another $300,000 during the same time for the same information This rather embarrassing and costly situation is expected to be remedied by the passage of AB1624. Members and employees of the online-rights organizations EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) and CPSR (Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility) tracked Bill AB1624 with great interest. CPSR representative Al Whaley provided an Internet mailing list distribution and file archive site. The mailing list contained dozens of people interested in tracking the progress of the bill through the legislature. Members of the mailing list targeted numerous bottlenecks with well-placed letters, faxes, and phone calls. For most mailing list members, the mailing list provided the sole means of communication between Warren and them. Extraordinary Orchestration Warren describes himself as "just a citizen-volunteer-advocate of AB1624" with "no business interest therein." Nevertheless, his electronic-populist lobbying efforts and techniques are impressive. His work with the small mailing list group over the Internet was as powerful an agent of change as that of much larger, highly funded lobbying organizations. Warren sees the passage of the bill as only the first step in developing what might be termed a new interface to government. He is working with teams of volunteer programmers to develop sophisticated software that will present government data to the public in convenient, easy-to-use formats. (The data is in a complex format that requires sophisticated typesetting capabilities to print; the programmers are working on automating the process and integrating it with popular Internet software packages.) Once the data is available in on-line format, it could achieve wider dissemination to a variety of commercial and private electronic services, including CompuServe, GEnie, Delphi, and many bulletin board systems. Warren believes that if this data were easily available on-line, popular interest and involvement in government would increase. In addition, existing distribution mechanisms would be streamlined (for example, some of this data currently is "rekeyed" at significant economic expense). Passionate Belief and Focused Lobbying In his frequent updates to the mailing list, Warren provided detailed information about the bill's current status, immediate legislative and committee hurdles, and the names, addresses, phone and fax numbers of critical representatives. Warren once wrote that "our timely faxes, letters, and phone calls are all that's kept <the bill> alive." Warren excelled at "shadow writing" letters. Here is a part of an email from Warren to the mailing list, suggesting points to cover in letters to representatives: * Timely access to information is a prerequisite to responsible citizenship. * Legislative info sent by paper mail often arrives too late. * Enhancing the public's opportunity to offer input may create good legislation. * The California government should join the U.S. Supreme Court, the White House, the Library of Congress, etc., in providing information on-line. * Access to governance should not be limited to well-funded special interests. * Legislators not part of the design of a bill can offer their position statements. * Cooperation and free sharing is common and typical across the nets. Warren described the following points as "especially important" and "the unelected bureaucrats' focal point": * Do not charge for access, use, reuse, republication, etc. -- no royalties. * Allow value-added services to charge for added value without fees to state. Warren also recommended the exact format and medium of the communications. For example, he ranked letters and faxes over postcards and phone calls in influential effect. He describes the fine-tuned approach with the passion of an artist teaching technique to a student: * If possible, use business stationery, or at least indicate affiliation. * Include your work title (if needed, say "for identification only"). * Letters from companies, institutions and organizations count the most. * Letters and faxes count the most (as opposed to phone calls or cards). * One personalized page is plenty; more than one page is a waste. * Postcards count very little (they are tallied and forgotten). * Phone calls to _your_ representatives help; calls to other representatives are otherwise just counted. * When calling, don't expect the legislator; just state your position. When targeting his opposition, Warren expressed his wrath freely. For example, he wrote that "some of the most powerful unelected bureaucrats in the Legislature appear to be doing everything they can to kill AB1624..." He cited the names of people who "authored blatantly misleading and/or flat-out false information about AB1624 and its proposed implementation and 'dangers'." He wrote of behind-the-scenes machinations and meetings by prominent legislators and the two major data-redistribution companies, explaining, "Profits from peddling electronic copies of _our_ public legislative data are paid to his office as off-budget loot. Blatant conflict-of-interest. Infuriating arrogance against the public interest. <SNARL!>" Nevertheless, Warren conscientiously forwarded statements by the bill's apparent opponents, as a forum for rebuttal for "anything I have published or circulated in these updates." Indeed, he later forwarded a press release by the Legi-Tech company, "California's premier online legislative information service," announcing a new bill tracking service for public libraries. Mailing List Members Speak The AB1624 mailing list attracted a wide range of interest, not just from Californians. Coordinator Al Whaley requested letters from list members describing their personal interest in the matter. Subscriber Bob Smith wrote: Why participate? I am a retired University Professor now involved in building a commercial expert system for a firm doing hazardous materials response training for fireman and others. This is an area where lots of ignorance exists, is very legalistic, and political. Advance notice and an opportunity to bring facts to the discussion could avoid lots of dumb laws being passed. Simply by providing some forum for debate could save thousands of person years a month. One software engineer replied: I joined the CPSR electronic mailing list for the development of computer interfaces to legislative databases recently, but have been following the area with keen interest. From the very first moment that I heard people were interested in freeing up this data, and that there were some very frustrating and artificial obstacles toward actually accessing it, I realized that a long but momentous battle is under way. I think future historians will look back on this period to see the first fledgling roots of a new type of government called "Electronic Democracy" with online databases a crucial aspect of the entire new system. As I see it, Electronic Democracy will be far more "populist" and "grass-roots" oriented than any government our planet has ever seen. The potential for increasing citizen interest from a proportional increase in public _influence_ over the process will be liberating for virtually everyone, except some people who have twisted the current system for personal benefit to the point that it has reached an utter crisis in gridlock and pinnacle of citizen disenfranchisement and alienation. Subscriber Steve Peterson responded: I'm involved because I think it's important for the "average person" to have inexpensive access to legislative data. The fact that people have been willing to pay a lot of money for access to this data testifies to its importance and usefulness. Requiring people to continue to pay for access will, in the long run, make it more difficult for the average person to participate in the political process. The AB1624 mailing list evolved into a kind of hotline or bulletin board. Warren frequently received hundreds of messages over a few days. The list fed a sort of electronic network food chain. Interesting bulletins posted by Warren reverberated through closed organization mailing lists, such as those of EFF and CPSR, on to Internet newsgroups, and then to bulletin boards and electronic digests such as The Current Underground Digest. These rapid communications stand in stark contrast to newspapers and postal mail, the classic tools of democratic access. These appear feeble and archaic in comparison to the timely access provided by the Internet and electronic mail. Economics of Access Warren portrays the overall issue of on-line access in an economic and ethical light. He believes that government records, such as legislative session transcripts, are fundamentally public property, and that the government has an obligation to provide it free or as a minimal service from levied taxes. In California, virtually all the data affected by AB1624 is already available to the public in printed form for no charge. To Warren, the electronic version is a natural next step. Early in the bill's history, it went through modifications that might have required fees in certain cases. At one point, Rep. Bowen believed the bill would not pass without rules that required resellers of the data to compensate the state. However, Warren championed the right to free distribution, arguing that the alternatives were too complex and burdensome to implement. Warren's idealism has encountered serious opposition from a variety of powerful interests. Some private companies objected to the bill -- companies with lucrative redistribution arrangements with the legislature involving payment to the treasury for access rights. Since the bill could drive them out of business, their opposition was not surprising. In addition, some legislators objected to the possibility of private companies possibly profiting from sales of the free data without recompensation to the state. The two largest companies that resell state data, Legi-Tech and State Net, had ambivalent reactions to the bill. There is speculation that early on they hired a lobbyist to oppose the effort. Later, however, the Sacramento Bee newspaper, the "flagship" of the McClatchy organization, the parent company of Legi-Tech, ran an editorial strongly supportive of AB1624. Warren characterized the statement as "a laudable, principled action...in the face of a difficult trade-off between the public's interests versus their business interests." Warren later reported that Legi-Tech did not seem to be directly opposing the bill. He apologized for his earlier impressions, saying that "political cynicism and distrust may be amply justified, rampant, and in vogue, but they can muddy accurate information and harm good judgement." Some of Legi-Tech's press releases appear to closely echo the populist goals expounded on the mailing list: "Legi-Tech supports public access to legislative data, and California public libraries are the logical choice for such access," says Sheryl Bell, General Manager of Legi-Tech. "We are excited at this unique opportunity to provide public libraries free access to our online service. There has always been a need for access to public information. This project fulfills that need through the latest computer technology." Legi-Tech has taken several other steps to make the Legislature more accessible for the average citizen. However, the effect of free online legislative information on data resellers such as Legi-Tech is uncertain. Warren suggests that these companies can find their largest share of business in "value added services" to the data, a distinct market that wouldn't be threatened by direct public availability of the data. The Final Hurdle Warren's last update to the mailing list on the passage of the bill was sent August 19, 1993. It described in detail the flow of a "public hearing" on AB1624 by the five-member Senate Rules Committee chaired by David Roberti. The committee began by removing the mandate that the data include appropriate formatting and typesetting information. The vote was directed with no rebuttal, even by the bill's author, Rep. Debra Bowen. Next, the "fee issue" was addressed, again with no public input. In Warren's words: Next, Roberti permitted Bowen to make her opening statement -- and he asked data-peddler Chief Legislative Counsel Bion Gregory to also come forward. There were three seats available, so Gregory had one of his staff come with him and the two of them sandwiched Bowen between them. This neatly blocked any supporter or technically competent person from moving to a position where they could assist Bowen in countering some of the rambling, error-filled, fact-starved discussion -- during which Gregory smoothly muddled many of the issues. Next, Legi-Tech and State Net representatives were invited by Roberti to "plead their case." They requested statutory assurance that the state would continue to offer them the same access they currently have. Robert and Bowen opposed the private-party contract encoded in state law, but agreed to add language that would not preclude what Warren describes as "peddling the data in other forms." Finally, public comment was permitted: After all significant discussion was concluded and all decisions were made that were going to be made, a dozen or so people were permitted to say whatever they wanted to say -- in no more than two or three minutes, each. Some drove half a day to participate in the process. How nice. All strongly supported the bill -- including AARP, Common Cause, UC Students, Al Whaley (who runs cpsr.org), etc. Of course, none of the Senators asked any questions nor pursued any discussion with any of the technically-competent speakers, nor with the several who sought to refute the Gregory Disinformation Campaign. After a unanimous vote in favor by the committee, Chair Roberti concluded the session. Warren rejoiced in the victory, but had mixed feelings about the process: Sorry folks, but -- if it's not obvious -- I'm fried. Hope you will forgive the length and tone of this, as reward for pursuing this project. I should be happy -- because we [mostly] "won." But I gotta tell ya, this and the Assembly Rules Committee meetings have been the most offensive processes -- the most abusive of the principles of citizen participation in their own governance -- that I have ever witnessed (and I've seen some really abusive ones at the old San Mateo County Board of Supervisors, before the last elections cleaned it out). When powerful [unelected] bureaucrats want to benefit their fiefdoms at the expense of the public, they are much too cozy with _our_ too-senior representatives for the public's well-being. If AB1624 weren't so important, I most certainly would chuck the whole thing. But then the b------- who want to control and parsimoniously choke and charge us for _our_ timely access to _our_ government and _our_ public records for _their_ benefit would win, and THAT would be even more obscene! Unanimous Support On September 8, 1993, the AB1624 Bill passed the California Assembly unanimously, 78-0. Unless vetoed by Govenor Pete Wilson, the bill becomes law on January 1, 1994. On September 17, Warren sent out another mini-newsletter, reaffirming the importance of the online efforts: Mary Winkley, the [underpaid!] workaholic aide to AB1624-author Debra Bowen, has reiterated that our online-organized efforts and saturation actions just before crucial votes were what kept the bill alive and pushed it through the legislature. NEAT! Warren indicated that many Perot supporters also coordinated a support campaign for the bill, apparently alerted by his online telegrams. Future Directions The AB1624 effort may serve as a basic model for larger efforts currently under way at the national level. Groups such as EFF and TAP (Taxpayers Assets Project, founded by Jamie Love and Ralph Nader) are involved in projects that focus on public access for government databases. Clearly, the obstacles are daunting. But on the other hand, as the above account implies, email and the Internet can have a transforming effect on government gridlock. In the months and years ahead, many Internet participants will experience first-hand the consequences of their irresistible force meeting immovable objects. [GO] for a list of organizations officially supporting the AB1624 bill (filed with the Bowen office). [GO] for suggested format for letter to Governor Wilson. _(Go to next article...)_
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[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] [O'Reilly &amp; Assoc.] MITCH KAPOR, DATA HIGHWAY GURU _________________________________________________________________ Twin Titans: Kapor and Gates During the mid-1980s, when Mitch Kapor and Bill Gates were America's twin software titans, telling them apart wasn't hard. Before striking it rich, Kapor had spent time as a disc jockey, a stand-up comic, a transcendental meditation instructor and a counselor at a mental hospital (where, he liked to tell journalists, he had performed "the psychic equivalent of emptying bedpans"). Gates had gone straight from college into business, showing the single-minded drive for which he remains famous. Kapor had called his software company "Lotus"--simple, elegant, quietly reflective of his spiritual leanings. Gates, in something shy of a vast creative leap, had named his microcomputer software company "Microsoft." Gates's main product, the operating system DOS, was, like the company's name, serviceable but clunky. Kapor's smash hit, the spreadsheet Lotus 1-2-3, was stylish and user-friendly. mitch.zip
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[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] [Delphi] THE WHOLE WORLD IS TALKING _________________________________________________________________ Croatian Diary in Cyberspace This article appeared in the _Nation_, July 12, 1993. Halfway around the world, Wam Kat files daily reports on life in Zagreb, Croatia. "I just stood about half an hour in the supermarket downstairs watching a firmly built man.... He was shouting at everybody in the shop," he wrote on May 24. "From what I could understand, he said that when Croatia was under the Serbs (in former Yugoslavia), the price of bread was at least half of what it is now. Just a few days ago I heard somebody say that under the communists we had our problems, but now under the capitalists we have our problems too. What is the difference if you work for the communist or capitalist elite?" Kat's bulletins, which he calls "Zagreb Diary" don't appear in Yugoslav papers or on television. They exist in cyberspace. Kat types them on his own computer in Zagreb and sends them by modem to an electronic bulletin board in Germany. From there, his stories are relayed to computers around the world via the global mega-information stream called the Internet. "Electronic mail is the only link between me and the outside world," says Kat, writing by e-mail. The Croatian government owns all the major media in the country and is prosecuting a group of journalists for treason. Kat is only one of the millions of people participating in this community without walls. During other recent cataclysms, the Internet provided an instant, unfiltered link to the world. "In Russia, during the coup attempt, people were providing live reports on Russian Internet about what was really going on. They were widely circulated on the Net," says Mitchell Kapor, founder of Lotus Development Corporation and now chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a group advocating "electronic civil liberties," primarily freedom of speech and privacy. "During Tiananmen Square, students were getting the news out and were fundraising through Internet," adds Tom Mandel, a futurist with SRI International, a Silicon Valley-based consulting firm. "There were a bunch of us hungrily reading newsgroups, stuff we weren't getting from reporters." (Newsgroups are open discussion groups where people can post their views.) But the Net is changing more than just the flow of information; it's changing the way we relate to one another. The advent of global networking is fragmenting and re-sorting society into what one author calls "virtual communities." Instead of being bound by location, groups of people can now meet in cyberspace, the noncorporeal world existing between two linked computers. There they can look for colleagues, friends, romance, or sex. John Hoag, communications coordinator for BARRNet, the Bay Area Regional Research Network, who began computer networking in 1986, says, "I met more people on-line inside a month than I met in the past ten years." Have Modem, Will Travel The Internet is the most powerful computer network on the planet simply because it's the biggest. It encompasses 1.3 million computers with Internet addresses that are used by up to 30 million people in more than forty countries. The number of computers linked to the Internet has doubled every year between 1988 and 1992; this year the rate of increase slowed slightly to 80 percent. To reach it, one needs only a computer, modem and password. Dan Van Belleghem, who helps connect organizations to the Internet for the National Science Foundation, says, "Nobody has ever dropped off the network. Once they get on they get hooked. It's like selling drugs." While Internet experts deride the term "information superhighway" as an empty soundbite, the concept works as an analogy to understand how the Internet functions. Think of it as a massive road system, complete with freeways, feeders and local routes. At every intersection sits a computer, which has to be passed through to get to the next computer until you've reached your destination. Any computer on the Internet system can connect with any other computer through the road system. And if the route to your destination is closed, you will automatically take a detour to get there. The difference between the Internet and the Interstate is that you can go to Finland as quickly as you can go down the block. Once there, you can remotely manipulate the computer to do anything your own can do. You can retrieve a file from it in the blink of an eye. Today, users can talk to one another, send e-mail back and forth, join arcane discussion groups, tap into libraries in universities from Berkeley to Bern and exchange almost any sort of data, including pictures, sound and text. Recently, a cult movie called _Wax_ was broadcast to Internet sites all around the country. While it was black and white and only two frames per second, it was an important first step toward the computer equivalent of cable broadcasting. Also, a radio program is already broadcast weekly on the Net, complete with technology news and a "Geek of the Week" segment. You Have to Be a Computer Weenie But it's not all smooth sailing on the sea of information. On most computers, the Internet is hard to use. The arcane commands that run it make little sense to many average users, who can find themselves lost in cyberspace without a map. "The Internet today is still for computer weenies," says Kapor. "But the problem will take care of itself," he adds, "because easier to use software tools will appear as the Net grows." To make matters more confusing, because the Internet is a network of networks, no one group or person is in charge. Kapor describes it as "anarchy." Mandel says, "It's all very ad hoc." And R.U. Sirius, editor-in-chief of the cyberpunk magazine Mondo 2000, says, "It's definitely out of control." Ironically, the anarchy began in the bowels of the Defense Department. Back in 1969, the Pentagon's Advanced Research Projects Agency created ARPANET, a computer networking project, to transmit packets of military data securely and efficiently around the world. In 1984, the National Science Foundation began building five supercomputers around the country for conducting scientific research. When Defense Department researchers wanted access to the supercomputers as well, the N.S.F. linked them up with ARPANET. The popularity of computer access, especially to collaborate on-line, has steadily expanded ever since. "It was just a bunch of computer scientists talking to one another," says Van Belleghem. "Then educators and people involved in research or administration all wanted to talk to one another, get files, get to libraries on the network. It's been opening up and getting more open every year." Staggering Amount of Information Over the past decade, tens of thousands of nonmilitary networks have been connected to the Internet's electronic web, including the Library of Congress, most U.S. universities and libraries, and private companies from General Electric to the Bank of Bermuda. Of course, not all the sites are publicly accessible. Most private sites require special passwords for entry, which only registered users and an occasional hacker can get. However, the amount of information available to the on-line public is staggering. "Getting information off the Internet is like taking a drink from a fire hydrant," says Kapor. Everything from the complete works of Shakespeare to the number of sodas in a Coke machine at Carnegie-Mellon University is accessible. The primary use of the Net is for communication, however. "Half the traffic on the Internet is e-mail at this point," says Mandel. The number of topics on the newsgroups can be daunting. There are more than 2,500 different subjects, ranging from one for fans of The Simpsons, to classified and personal ads, to Bay Area politics. There are also, naturally, many groups dedicated to different computer systems and languages, as computer scientists and hackers are still the main users of the Internet. One researcher at Cornell who studied the way scientists use the newsgroups discovered that real research isn't furthered much by reading them. Bruce Lewenstein, assistant professor of communication and science and technology studies, found that during the cold fusion controversy, newsgroups did little to aid scientists assessing the phenomenon. In fact, most of the newsgroup postings constituted what he calls "irrelevant chatter." Indeed, in a two-week period in April, the two most active posters were sending erotic images. The White House came in third, with transcripts of press briefings, speeches and press releases. _The direct access to information the Internet provides is "inherently politically subversive." These Internet activists want to make sure that this power stays with individuals. Right now a debate is raging in Washington on how to transform the Internet [...]_ Our Chance to Be Heard But some people are using newsgroups to disseminate information from a different perspective. Harel Barzilai, a Cornell graduate student in math, has created a group for progressive activists, and he claims that 23,000 people read his postings regularly. His group ("misc.activism.progressive" in Internetspeak) posts articles from leftist magazines and alternative campus publications, as well as action bulletins on issues of concern. "You're not going to find anything to the left of the Democratic Party on TV or in newspapers," he says. "And for those of us who have access to the Internet, it's free to use it and post information. This is our chance to be heard." Like many Netheads, Barzilai thinks of the Internet as a new communication model, allowing for unfiltered, many-to-many publishing, rather than the traditional hierarchical one-to-many approach. "This is a situation where money, or capital, does not have a monopoly on access," he says. R.U. Sirius agrees. "The role of capital as an editor is being removed," he says. Sirius, like many, feels a sense of liberation on the Net. "The metaphor of the highway fits," he says. "Like Jack Kerouac's _On the Road_, from a tight little community out onto the wide open road. Everybody's out there; it's not a small elite system." Howard Rheingold, whose book The Virtual Community is being published in October by Addison-Wesley, says, "If you have a computer, you have the power to broadcast. It gives the power to individuals that used to be only that of the privileged few." And, he adds, the direct access to information the Internet provides is "inherently politically subversive." These Internet activists want to make sure that this power stays with individuals. Right now a debate is raging in Washington on how to transform the Internet into a faster, bigger network, called NREN, the National Research and Education Network. Funding for NREN began with then-Senator Al Gore in 1991. This year, Congressman Rick Boucher is sponsoring legislation to add on to Gore's brainchild, providing $1.5 billion in funding to hook libraries, schools and medical facilities to new high- speed computers. Telecommunications and computer companies, including NYNEX and Cray Research, have lined up in favor and a Clinton Administration spokesperson has said that the President is prepared to sign the legislation, which is expected to pass through both houses of Congress this summer. Will the Gov't Ruin the Internet? But one of the main aims of Boucher's bill has alarmed many longtime Net users. It also encourages the NREN computers to use private networks, instead of publicly subsidized ones. Boucher, chairman of the House Science Subcommittee, has suggested that the government should turn over all areas of the Internet to private corporations whenever possible. He says, "The Internet has grown without a clear plan or organization. There's no government for the Internet. One of the great challenges is to establish some means of providing order and giving markers along the way." By itself, the first move toward privatization means little. Another Boucher-sponsored bill would grant antitrust exemptions for telephone companies, allowing a single company to own both phone and cable lines. Boucher thinks this will provide the financial incentive for the private sector to upgrade the communications links between the Internet and private homes. But critics fear that the end result could be the expansion of local cable and telephone monopolies into monopolies controlling all electronic access into the home. By giving the private sector unregulated and monopolistic control over the Net's electronic connections, the government would in effect allow megacorporations like AT&T and Time Warner, who own the cable lines and manage what flows through them, to call the shots in the future. They could determine how much anyone, from a single individual to a university, will have to pay for access. Some phone companies, for example, are already discussing charging users either by the amount of time they log on to the Internet or by the amount of data they send over it--despite the fact that their network operating costs are fixed no matter how many people use it or how much data flows through it. Changing the funding structure means the eventual extinction of the small, mom-and-pop computer networks, which could find themselves victims of predictable market forces. And that means that isolated users and cash-strapped colleges could be cut off from their virtual communities. Netheads Resist Control Not everyone predicts such a scenario, however. John Hoag from BARRNet thinks virtual communities will survive even if commercial interests dominate the data superhighway. "The Internet culture has its roots so deep, I don't think it's going to disappear," he says. Even if a local monopoly restricts access to the Net, "the culture will exist around it." And users have reacted fiercely to Boucher's proposals, with e-mail flying from Berkeley to Bangladesh. The specter of censorship, as on commercial systems like Prodigy, where system administrators routinely delete "objectionable" messages, looms. "Communities, whether virtual or physical, should be self-determining, rather than determined by megacorporations," adds the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Kapor. "The users of the Net should determine its uses and content." In a worst-case scenario, Rheingold says, corporations would not only monitor what's on the Internet, they would monitor you. If, as some predict, the information superhighway becomes primarily a conduit for watching movies, banking at home and shopping, the same computers that we use to lessen the burden of our daily errands could also be used by the corporations that provide those services to destroy our personal privacy. The Net could be used by marketing wizards--the same ones who flood us with annoying junk mail--to keep tabs on us all in Orwellian fashion, automatically recording our interests and habits. Hackers have already developed a few defenses, which could be the seeds for preserving the right to free communication. Free software to encode all electronic transmissions is now widely available, with codes that even the fastest supercomputers would have a tough time cracking. This means that nobody but the person you send something to--whether an e-mail note or a piece of software--can read it. And anonymity is also possible--networks have been set up in such disparate places as Helsinki and San Diego to enable completely anonymous speech. The Finnish operator declared that he will never allow anyone to find out the true names of his users without a court order. Clinton's Encoding Scheme Internet activists are also not happy with the Clinton Administration's effort to impose a standard encoding scheme for data, whether e-mail or a movie, that only the government can break. "The machinery of oppression has weak spots," Rheingold says, noting the spread of encryption techniques that even the National Security Agency may not be able to crack. "But the powers that be in the N.S.A. have convinced Clinton that they have to close the doors before all the cows get out." Whether it's the government or private corporations, what everyone wants is control of a new form of communication, one that currently cannot be controlled. Given the stakes and the power of the interests now seeking to shape and profit from this new technology, the end result may not be a happy one for the average citizen-user. "The key questions of access, pricing, censorship and redress of grievances will be answered in practice, in law, in executive order or legislative action, over the next five years," Rheingold writes, "and will thus determine the political and economic structure of the Net for decades to come." But for the time being, the activities of people like Wam Kat seem to prove an old hacker adage: "All information wants to be free." _ (Go to next article...)_ _________________________________________________________________ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] [Delphi]
strani.sistemi.150 skerl, -> #124, m.hristodulo
│ Other BBSes of Interest └──── Imas u KOMUNIKACIJE.4:email uz poruku broj 9.234 fajl EMAILADR.ZIP (nesto preko 21k zipovano) sa preko 600 telefonskih brojeva bbs-ova firmi koje se bave konjupterima. Drugim recima: PC Industry Support BBS Listing Pozdrav, Skerl.
strani.sistemi.151 dcolak, -> #144, .bata.
│ Jos ne moze zato sto je u fazi alfa testiranja :(( al' mislim │ da na Sezamu postoji neki QWK konvertor (dejane ispravi me ako gresim :) ) Ne postoji.. Postoji samo QWK -> TXT a to nije to... Meni treba program koji će CEO QWK prebaciti u REP. Tako bi mogle da se prebacuju poruke između različitih BBS software-a... So, ko ima taj program? Sledge DAMMIR!
strani.sistemi.152 m.hristodulo, -> #135, snemcev
U vezi sa ABM BBSom i neuspesnim ZModemom sa njim: Da nije u pitanju sedmobitna veza? Poznato je da ZModem radi samo sa cistom osmobitnom vezom. Da li ste postavili N81 u svom comm. programu? Jupak PAD zahteva E71, pa ako rucno ne postavite N81 kasnije, nema nista od downloada.
strani.sistemi.153 m.hristodulo, -> #136, dcolak
>> Ne slazem se sa tobom da mu je to slaba tacka. Ja nekako ne podnosim PCBoard, mada dosta znam da ga koristim. Valjda sam se razocarao u njega, kad nisam uspeo da podesim korisnicka imena od jedne reci, kada sam hteo da pravim svoj BBS. Verzija je bila 14.5/d, a cuo sam da nova verzija (15.0) moze svasta, ali ja je ne posedujem. Moracu da im saljem lovu za upgrade...
strani.sistemi.154 zdule,
Gateway EIGER with service(s): ABMBBS (BBS with FIDOnet, Adrianet, Doors, programs, conferences & more) Username: ABMBBS %REM-I-TOQUIT, connection established Press Ctrl/Đ to quit, Ctrl/č for command mode DTEPAD> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Šta sada da radim? ZDule...
strani.sistemi.155 m.hristodulo, -> #149, .bale.
>> Kat's bulletins, which he calls "Zagreb Diary" >> don't appear in Yugoslav papers or on television. Katovi bilteni se ne pojavljuju u nasim novinama ni na nasoj televiziji, ali se zato pojavljuju na ZaMir BBS-u. Okrenite (011)632566 i proverite. Njegovi izvestaji su *jako* zanimljivi
strani.sistemi.156 dcolak, -> #152, m.hristodulo
│ li ste postavili N81 u svom comm. programu? Jupak │ PAD zahteva E71, pa ako rucno ne postavite N81 │ kasnije, nema nista od downloada. Nema veze sa tim.. Probao moj ortak... Sledge DAMMIR!
strani.sistemi.157 dejanr, -> #152, m.hristodulo
>> U vezi sa ABM BBSom i neuspesnim ZModemom sa >> njim: Da nije u pitanju sedmobitna veza? Ne bih regao. Kada se logujem na EIGER (kao dejanr) sasvim normalno radim download sa njega (VAX-a) ZModem-om. žak se dobija sasvim lep cps - tako skidam većinu ovih vesti koje idu u NOVOSTI/microb. Međutim, sa ABM-a koji ide preko EIGER-a ne ide dobro download. No to me ne čudi previše, jer kad god se negde koristi outdial ove ili one vrste, download slabo funkcioniše. Eventualno bi vredelo probati Kermit protokolom, on je dobar u uslovima raznih kašnjenja na mrežama.
strani.sistemi.158 dejanr, -> #154, zdule
>> Šta sada da radim? Ne bi trebalo to da se desi, obično sledi uspostavljanje veze bez ikakve tvoje intervencije. Probaj ponovo da pozoveš.
strani.sistemi.159 skerl,
"The Beginner's Guide to the Internet" is a full-color, computer-based tutorial about the Internet. It is complete, covering email, ftp, telnet, gopher, Archie, Veronica, WAIS, WWW, USENET newsgroups, BITNET listservs, IRC and more. It is the only computer-based tutorial that gives you step-by-step instructions on how to do almost anything on the Internet. Perfect for Internet novices! Pozdrav, Skerl. p.s. Ovo bi moglo u neki dir da se strpa (ima header) bgi12.zip
strani.sistemi.160 mnikolic, -> #159, skerl
> "The Beginner's Guide to the Internet" is a full-color, computer-based Jel' radi i na Herkulesu? m.
strani.sistemi.161 .bata., -> #151, dcolak
ŔŔŔ │ da na Sezamu postoji neki QWK konvertor (dejane ispravi me ŔŔŔ ako gresim :) ) ŔŔŔ ŔŔŔ Ne postoji.. Postoji samo QWK -> TXT a to nije to... Ne, nisam mislio:'na Sezamu' misleci u fajlovima, nego sam cuo da postoji nacin da skidas poruke u QWK... bata
strani.sistemi.162 .bata., -> #154, zdule
ŔŔŔ Press Ctrl/D to quit, Ctrl/Z for command mode ŔŔŔ ŔŔŔ ŔŔŔ DTEPAD> Da to se i meni par puta desilo :( jednom sam uspeo da se povezem, ali vise puta sam imao slican problem... bata
strani.sistemi.163 skrajnalic, -> #152, m.hristodulo
&> li ste postavili N81 u svom comm. programu? Jupak &> PAD zahteva E71, pa ako rucno ne postavite N81 &> kasnije, nema nista od downloada. Nije baš da zahteva E71, samo ako se ne postavi biće malo čudan prompt...inače, radi isto i sa E81 i E71..... Pozdrav..... skr
strani.sistemi.164 snemcev, -> #152, m.hristodulo
>> U vezi sa ABM BBSom i neuspesnim ZModemom sa >> njim: Da nije u pitanju sedmobitna veza? Nije, ABM te ni ne pušta da radiš sa parametrima 7e1. >> Da nije u pitanju sedmobitna veza? Poznato je >> da ZModem radi samo sa cistom osmobitnom vezom. Nije tačno. Skinuo sam megabajte Zmodemom sa parametrima 7e1.
strani.sistemi.165 m.hristodulo, -> #154, zdule
>> DTEPAD> Verovatno si pritisnuo ctrl/@, ili je bilo djubre na vezi. Probaj da otkucas exit na dtepad prompt. To je nesto kao resume.
strani.sistemi.166 zonjic, -> #157, dejanr
> Ne bih regao. Kada se logujem na EIGER (kao dejanr) sasvim normalno > radim download sa njega (VAX-a) ZModem-om. žak se dobija sasvim lep > cps - tako skidam većinu ovih vesti koje idu u NOVOSTI/microb. > Međutim, Ja danas bio na UBBG preko Jupaka, i kad sam otkucao $ sz fajl.ext momentalno mi se u Telemateu promenio status line - parametri su presli u 8N1 ! Po okoncanom transferu stanje je bilo opet 7E1!!! Que paso, hombre?
strani.sistemi.167 niklaus, -> #152, m.hristodulo
(:> U vezi sa ABM BBSom i neuspesnim ZModemom sa (:> njim: Da nije u pitanju sedmobitna veza? Poznato je Kad smo već kod toga (ABMa i hronično loše veze), mogu vam reći da je kom. prog. DEPUTY (ima ga u R:ĐCOM direktorijumu) pravo otkriće. Radi transfer u pozadini (a vi vršljate po promptu) i opšte uzev je ukenj-frendli. Pogotovu ako vam treba MNPx emulacija... (: <- zadovoljstvo (:niklaus:)
strani.sistemi.168 skerl, -> #160, mnikolic
│> "The Beginner's Guide to the Internet" is a full-color, │ computer-based │ │ Jel' radi i na Herkulesu? └──── Nisam probao, ali s obzirom da sve vreme radi u text modu, morao bi da radi i na Hercules-u. Pozdrav, Skerl.
strani.sistemi.169 .obj,
Uvreženo je mišljenje da je psovanje, vređanje, klevetanje, pljuvanje etc na kompjuterskim sistemima i BBS-ovima zastupljeno samo na balkanskim prostorima. ;) E pa i nije baš tako. ;) Uz ovu datoteku je okačen mali ZIP sa izvodom iz grupe alt.fan.bill-gates sa (pikantnim) delom jedne ... diskusije. Kratki izvodi: ;) Sir, I have known puds. I have quite a few friends who are puds. You, Mr Solomon, are a pud. =========================================== You pathetic lower than a freenet internet trash. Take your stupid idiotic moronic meandering comments back to your stupid little home, delphi. Oh and by the way: ... =========================================== Are you for real?? Jesus christ, can someone please install a mental aptitude test for compuserve, prodigy, and delphi users?? =========================================== bwa-hahahahahahahahahah! =========================================== I still can't decide whether this guy is either the stupidest person I've heard of recently, or has baited the best hook I've seen. =========================================== Shut up you damn ignorant delphi trash... =========================================== itd. altfbg.zip
strani.sistemi.170 enterprise,
Hi! :) Ima li neko ovde koji bi mogao da mi pomogne ? :) Tj. da li se neko "redovno" loguje na ABM BBS ? Imam neki fajl koji bi tamo teo da skinem, zove se CDIARY12.EXE :). Inače, radi se o dnevniku. :) P.S. ne pišem ja dnevnik ... :)
strani.sistemi.171 niklaus, -> #159, skerl
(:> "The Beginner's Guide to the Internet" is a full-color, (:> computer-based Odlično štivo. Za čitanje "na iskap". Toplo preporučujem. (:> p.s. Ovo bi moglo u neki dir da se strpa (ima header) Podržano! (: (:niklaus:)
strani.sistemi.172 snemcev, -> #167, niklaus
>> Kad smo već kod toga (ABMa i hronično loše veze), mogu vam reći da >> je kom. prog. DEPUTY (ima ga u R:ĐCOM direktorijumu) pravo otkriće. Jesi li pokušao da preneseš fajl na 4800 bps?
strani.sistemi.173 .bale.,
Evo nastavka onog teksta "Leaders of... (šta ti ja znam)". [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Anne Fallis, Founder of TREC (Technology for Rural Enhancement and Communities) In the Black Hills of South Dakota, a bulletin board system (BBS) has become a tool for delivering social programs. Anne Fallis uses her BBS daily to help set up programs in distance learning, job training, and prevention of drug and alcohol abuse. [SHOW] a photograph of Anne Fallis. Fallis has raised 4.5 million dollars for her programs with an expenditure of only $20,000 -- an incredibly low expense rate of under one-half of one percent. She credits her economizing to the use of the BBS. Fallis does research through a Listserv maintained by EDUCOM, uses e-mail to communicate among constituents, and advertises her programs to the outside world by connecting to other BBS's. (You can phone into her BBS at 605-394-0468.) Programs can also use the BBS to deliver services. For instance, with the help of the BBS, collaborative writing projects are flourishing on several Indian reservations, and a professor at M.I.T. has offered long-distance courses to students in those places. Fallis's way of working is to start programs of value to rural communities and American Indians, then turn the programs over to the community to administer. Part of the task of getting community members involved is to get them onto the BBS. Because computers are quite common in the schools on Indian reservations, Fallis uses the schools as a networking resource. She drives out to many communities to hook up modems and train staff (something that the commercial network providers generally won't do). Getting an Internet connection in South Dakota is very hard unless you're a university faculty member. One of Fallis's current projects is linking a large number of state residents to the Internet. She uses a combination of SLIP connections and her BBS system for this project. She is also looking into packet radio as a possible medium. In the big picture, Fallis's goal is access for everyone to the outside world via computer networks. To promote this goal nationally, she has founded a non-profit organization, Technology for Rural Enhancement and Communities (TREC). E-mail: afallis@silver.sdsmt.edu Following is Anne Fallis's statement about government policy and community networks. People Using Networks Can Have an Impact on Government _by Anne Fallis_ Computer networks are starting to make a difference. But providing access to parties with money and technical ability, without paying attention to the rest of the population, will widen the gap between socio-economic classes rather than improving governance. To reverse this trend, _everyone_ must have easy-interface, cheap access to world-wide information highways. Public schools, libraries, and government systems can be the foundation for this access by reallocating resources. National and local governments can perform many of their functions electronically, and save enough in time and travel to pay for electronic infrastructure. Here are some instances of local networks at work: * Cynthia Denton's Russell Country BBS brings information about federal government actions in agriculture to Hobson, Montana, a rural town of 100 people. * Congressmen Conrad Burns utilizes Big Sky Telegraph, Montana to get timely input from his constituents. * Dakota BBS, South Dakota, provides input to state legislators and Tribal Councilmen on a nearby isolated Indian Reservation. * NativeNet solicits support throughout Canada for American Indian causes. * A Colorado Springs City Councilman credits Dave Hughes with getting him elected through on-line campaigning. * Environmental Law Alliance Worldwide has provided e-mail research support to help win a number of court victories. * Cruzio, a Santa Cruz network, is lining up congressional candidates for an online forum. Although these examples are exciting, current facilities are not enough. Access for _many_ can be accomplished now if public policy makers quit waiting for high-end technology or Federal solutions. One rural state reports expenditures of $1.5 million for Internet services available _only_ to 990 faculty members. In contrast, North Dakota and Montana operate distributive systems for their entire elementary-secondary school structure for about $200,000 per year. Finally, economically-deprived people have little energy to participate in governance. The same telecommunications infrastructure that supports government improvement can support "tecnomics" -- economic activity through high technology. On-line facilitation of equal economic opportunities for all will result in a true change in governance. _(Go to next community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
strani.sistemi.174 .bale.,
[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Dave Hughes, Founder of Old Colorado City Communications Dave Hughes is probably the premier technical and policy facilitator in grass-roots community networking. In 1981, he started what may be the first bulletin board system (BBS) whose goal was to empower the local public politically. Since then, Hughes has traveled around the world in an effort to bring some of the most disenfranchised and isolated communities into the electronic age. In Hughes's home town, Colorado Springs, Colorado, all residents can get online, including truck drivers logging in from Rogers Bar. On more than one occasion, Colorado Springs citizens organized by Hughes online won a changes in the procurement policy by local government. His local private bulletin board has evolved into a city-run "City Link" on which the city council communicates openly with the entire community online. Hughes is targeting the state legislature next. Hughes's work in other communities ranges from Hawaii to Russia. He designed the decentralized Big Sky Telegraph educational network in Montana. He employs Russian engineers, linked by modem, to do technical work. To support languages that don't use ASCII characters, he uses NAPLPS (North American Presentation Level Protocol Syntax). For a project in San Luis valley -- a poor, rural, Hispanic area of Colorado and New Mexico -- Hughes even plans to bring support for sound and music. In December 1992, Hughes was asked by the transition team of President-elect Clinton to submit a low-cost plan for bringing computer networks into all public schools. His suggestion was by far the cheapest, because he recommended transferring data through brief phone calls, using simple store-and-forward technologies such as UUCP, Fidonet, and FrEdMail. A large part of his suggested budget would go to training. The White House ultimately sent to Congress a request that was close to the dollar amount that Hughes projected, billions less that other projections. E-mail: dave@oldcolo.com Following is Dave Hughes' statement about government policy and community networks. The Electronic Public Interest Versus the Private Good _by Dave Hughes_ The US Government stands at a major crossroads in its role in building the National Information Highways. There are three paths open to it. One option is to build, with tax funds, the major networks of the National Information Infrastructure. The government and other analysts argue we can't afford that. A second choice is to remove all obstacles to the giant communications, telephone, cable, computer, and entertainment sectors. Allow them to build the network and offer it as a mass consumer service. A third option is to unleash and support the private sector to build the infrastructure, but to use laws and regulation to ensure that every American has free or highly price-regulated access. I am afraid this Administration already has taken the second path, abandoning the 1934 Telecom Act's principle of universal access for voice phone service. This decision has broad implications for future interactive telecommunications services. Unfortunately, the Administration is applying the principle if you can afford it, you can have it. This will affect historically "public" information services like K-12 education and public libraries, where the skills of the future have traditionally been passed on to the public, at the public's expense. By letting the "marketplace" decide the degree of access, we let commercial vendors of telecom go only where they see a profitable "market"; not where there is a need. This contrasts strongly with the policy of regulated phone service to rural areas, which was also the basis for business rates subsidizing residental voice phone rates. If the Administration continues with this trend, we will equate the private interest of a some citizens and groups -- either wealthy, or inside favorable markets -- with the public interest, which should recognize no such distinctions. And that guarantees an Information Rich/Information Poor society resembling Europe before the Industrial Age. _(Go to next community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
strani.sistemi.175 .bale.,
[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Evelyn Pine, Former Director of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility From 1989 to 1992, Evelyn Pine managed the renowned project, Berkeley Community Memory. Its goal was to make telecomputing a routine event for the inhabitants of Berkeley, California. A 10-terminal public-access network, Community Memory started in the 1970's and became famous for getting unusual combinations of people talking to each other. Pine joined them when they were broadening their user base to include more low-income families, senior citizens, and other disadvantaged people. She saw and fostered interactions across race and class that would never have occurred in a face-to-face setting. Pine was also deputy director for the non-profit Foundation for Community Service Cable Television in the state of California. This organization encouraged schools, community groups, and government agencies to use cable TV channels to get information out to the public. From 1992 to 1993, Pine was managing director of Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, a well-known public interest group that influences government policy in many areas of information technology, including military uses, privacy rights, and equal access for all citizens. By virtue of its concern for social impacts of computing, CPSR members have been involved in many community networking attempts. Evelyn Pine is now an organizational consultant, offering eleven years experience working with individuals and groups to make meaningful use of emerging technologies. E-mail: evy@well.sf.ca.us Following is Evelyn Pine's statement about government policy and community networks. Electronic Democracy Must Come From Us _by Evelyn Pine_ When that self-proclaimed champion of "electronic democracy," Ross Perot, invited Americans to say whether he should return to the 1992 presidential race, his consultants designed his 800-number phone system so everybody could vote -- but the only vote you could cast was "yes." This shouldn't surprise us. The clamor for new technology to increase citizen participation is not going to change politicians' desire to build consensus around the powerful interests they serve. Advocates are quick to point to electronic voting, access to elaborate government databases, and email to public officials at every level of government as ways that "the people" will be able to influence the actions of their leaders. The reality, however, is not so simple. The real value of electronic networking to democracy is not its power to reach public officials, but its power for us to meet each other in new, intimate, and yet public ways. Television educates us that our experience is secondary -- to the news, to the opinion of pundits, to the lives of celebrities. Computer networking can allow us to reaffirm the experience and expertise of those in our communities. In many ongoing electronic communities, the status of opinion-makers shifts. Rather than a crystalized hierarchy of leaders, different people emerge as knowledgeable and worthy of respect around different issues. One person, for instance, may have long experience with local politics, while another is known to keep current with ecological issues. Electronic networking may be nurtured to yield an anarchistic, intimate culture where the status of opinion-maker changes over many situations. However, the current members of online communities tend to be white, male, well off, and "knowledge workers." For electronic democracy to have any meaning, we need to offer broader access to the necessary tools -- literacy, technology, training, time to experiment, and an online culture that is welcoming and inclusive. Groups that already champion networking among diverse constituencies -- like American Indian Telecommunications, New York City's Playing to Win, and HandsNet -- can be leaders in the development of electronic democracy. We also need participatory design, where those who will use the system play a substantive role in the creation of the system. _(Go to next community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
strani.sistemi.176 .bale.,
[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Felipe Rodriquez, Sys Admin in the Hacktic Foundation In Holland -- a country of 14 million -- one organization offers low-cost Internet access to all. For about Dfl. 130 ($65 U.S.) a year and the cost of local phone calls, anyone can get a mailbox from the Hacktic Network Foundation and use its services to exchange files and mail. The estimated number of users, both direct and through linked-up bulletin board systems (BBS's), is between 1000 and 1500. The Hacktic Network Foundation is a non-profit, all-volunteer group of system administrators. They work together without choosing fixed roles, and describe themselves rather flamboyantly as techno-rebels. The foundation is committed to extending network use to low-income people, political activists, and ethnic minorities. Among the organizations brought online by the Hacktic Foundation are APS (Activist Press Service), WISE, Newsdesk (a politically oriented radio station), Ultimatum (a South American oriented political group), and Janssen & Janssen (an organization that monitors government agencies). The foundation provides free access to financially strapped organizations, and technical support to politically important projects. The foundation tries to publicize the Internet widely. Its network is used by journalists from the NRC-Handelsblad and the Volkskrant, two major Dutch newspapers. The foundation also hopes to inspire organizations to provide Internet access to underdeveloped countries. Currently it is helping another group bring the Internet to the occupied Israeli territories. Internally, the network is a hierarchically-organized system with over 100 nodes and 8 dial-in lines to the central system. It uses special packet-switching protocols over UUCP to provide several Internet services locally, such as telnet and ftp. A gopher interface makes access as simple as possible to services besides mail and news. Using a dial-up connection to a system maintained by Nlnet, Hacktic exchanges files with the rest of the world. E-mail: felipe@hacktic.nl Following is Felipe Rodriquez' statement about government policy and community networks. The Worldwide Impact of Network Access _by Felipe Rodriquez_ Community networking can change how governments operate because the people will have access to all kinds of information. With local networks and communities communicating with each other, governments will find it increasingly difficult to have a monopoly on information. International communication has at last become cheap and reliable. All of us will benefit if access to the net is open to everyone. It is especially important for political minorities to organize and grow by means of electronic communication. Already, alternate groups (political, environmental, and so forth) are greatly increasing their use of the Internet, and resources for them are also increasing at a rapid rate. For environmental groups the Internet has proven to be an excellent pool of resources. Ecological data is being made accessible through databases and mailing-lists, some wonderful examples being envirogopher and the United Nations gopher. Governments must increase their involvement on an international scale in developing the Internet. This means investments in the networking infrastructure (which are happening in the U.S. and in Europe), as well as policies to ensure public access. Here are some of the most pressing issues. * The networked world must subsidize developing countries to make use of network technology. Communication is a powerful tool to improve development and the exchange of technology. * Education is vital. Let children communicate internationally by means of school projects, private E-mail and multi-user international games. * Governments should never censor the Internet for political reasons. Only in cases of discrimination in race, color, culture, or social status should controls be applied. * Encryption technology should be freely available, such as PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), IDEA ciphering, and DES. International law regarding networks and privacy runs short in many ways. Programmers are being prosecuted because the programs they offered to the community should not have been "exported." At the moment this is happening to the author of PGP (Phil Zimmermann), who is being investigated by US customs because his program is used by people around the world. His case will be an important precedent. _(Go to next article...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
strani.sistemi.177 .bale.,
[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Frank Odasz, Director of Big Sky Telegraph When people want an example of how successful community networking can be, they talk about Big Sky Telegraph. Frank Odasz, an educator at Western Montana College of the University of Montana, set up Big Sky to provide educational services throughout the state. [SHOW] a photograph of Frank Odasz. Using small grants and the technical help of Dave Hughes, the network started operation on January 1, 1988. Now over 1000 people across Montana use its educational facilities and e-mail service. Basic service is free, with Internet e-mail costing only $50 a year. Big Sky offers affordable access in a rural setting because the technical base is cheap and simple. Local communities provide a small computer where people can dial in at any time. The small systems exchange files once a day with the central system at Western Montana College. The central system, in turn, performs file transfers with the rest of the world every night. In this bulletin-board-like setup, delivery can be achieved within 24 hours without the need for expensive Internet connections (although the central system is on the Internet). Montanans use Big Sky in many ways, including distance education (taking a course with a professor located far away), collaborative school projects, and electronic newsletters. Odasz hopes to embed the network deeply enough in public life that some people can earn their living over it. Odasz is also on the board of the Consortium for School Networking, a grass-roots organization that helps teachers nationwide exchange curricula and other useful information. E-mail: franko@bigsky.dillon.mt.us Following is Frank Odasz' statement about government policy and community networks. Community Networks Benefit Federal Goals _by Frank Odasz_ Community networks can benefit the government by providing the training necessary for citizens to access government information electronically. Local experts can assist the general public in access to information and services through the convenience of email. Those government services most important for a given community can be tailored through customized online menus for enhanced ease of access by the public. A community network can potentially provide a single point of access for local, state and national government services, accessible with the help of friendly local online public servants. Government CDROM databases can be economically mass-produced and made locally accessible on multiple community networks. Regularly available for updating, these databases could be tailored to the needs of specific communities, and could provide literally gigabits of government information at very low costs. Community networks, even those based on simple BBS software, can potentially offer citizens individual Internet ID's. Internet access across communities can provide global citizenship and entrepreneurial opportunities to local citizens via self-teaching online classes and email access. The government's biggest benefit from community networks will be the national tap on local innovations. But widespread grassroots innovations will be necessary for the potential of electronic delivery of government services to become reality, and for our nation to be an economic leader in the information age. _(Go to next community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
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[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Richard Civille, Director of the Center for Civic Networking Richard Civille entered community networking in a unique but highly characteristic way. In 1982, as part of an experiment at the University of California at Santa Cruz, he helped establish electronic mail links with remote Pacific island communities over an old weather satellite. The goal was to help underdeveloped island communities hook up with sources of information and funding in other parts of the world. Through many diverse projects since then, Civille has maintained his concern for helping underdeveloped areas and providing equal access to information for everyone. Civille later started a distance learning project that was revolutionary at the time: using telecommunications to link school children around the world to do joint work on an ecological issue. The subject matter was water quality. Cohesion among the students was built by using audio teleconferencing as well as e-mail. One exchange took place a day after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. Civille listened to the tearful exchanges of students from Canada, Germany, and Scotland concerned with wind directions and whether food was safe to eat. While working with projects in underdeveloped communities and in distance learning, Civille often encountered bureaucratic constraints and problems with public policy. He has become a leader at bringing together people from different grassroots telecommunications initiatives to learn from each other and organize politically. Civille consistently stresses the importance of access for everyone, especially disenfranchised and low-income groups. Civille also co-founded Econet and worked with its eventual sponsor, the Institute for Global Communications. He is the Washington director for the Center for Civic Networking, which promotes the public interest in communication policies and creates community networks. He is a board member of CapAccess, the community networking organization in Washington, D.C. and also serves as the Director of Information Services at the Center for Budget Policy Priorities. E-mail: rciville@civicnet.org Following is Richard Civille's statement about government policy and community networks. The Civic Promise of the National Information Infrastructure _by Richard Civille_ In Oregon, the county of Lane is struggling towards a sustainable economy as their logging industry declines. Several dozen citizens -- loggers, educators, environmentalists, business entrepreneurs -- are creating a county-wide public access network called Lane-Online. This service will connect schools to the Internet and global resources through community libraries, provide job listings and training opportunities, and promote community development. In Washington, DC, the National Capital Area Public Access Network (CapAccess) is forging new ties among volunteer social service agencies, local public radio, cable and television programmers, and regional libraries to combine separate services into new forms of public media. In Cambridge, Massachusetts, the Sustainable Development Information Network (SDIN) is developing library access to vast geographic and statistical databases in order to assist community groups to plan for the future. In Blacksburg, VA, a local university, the city council, community groups and the telephone company are preparing residential connectivity to the Internet for a town of 35,000. Civic networks are spreading across the country like wildfire. Such grassroots initiatives are creating new models for communication policy, and intensifying other initiatives that use older media and face-to-face encounters. A new model for community involvement is taking place in Vermont, where over twenty bills concerning telecommunications and public access were introduced after citizen groups and the legislature held hearings for a year around the state. Public access cable stations, a state-wide bulletin board service (BBS), and local BBS's all got involved in broadcasting and archiving the hearings. Efforts like Vermont's will influence the federal government as communication policy is shaped for the 21st Century. Now that Congress is grappling with the true meaning of the National Information Infrastructure, they can learn from the best of the local and state-wide actions and apply these new models nationwide. _(Go to next community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
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[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Tom Grundner, Director of the National Public Telecomputing Network (NPTN) Free-Nets represent the most widespread model for connecting the public via computer networks. At the center of this model is Dr. Tom Grundner, who started the Free-Net concept with a medical project in 1984. Grundner remains at the head of the national organization that guides the creation of new Free-Nets. Grundner's first network project was a system that handled medical questions from the public and got responses from doctors within 24 hours. He established the project in Cleveland, Ohio at the Department of Family Medicine, Case Western Reserve University. When this project became popular and widely admired, he started a general-purpose public network. The Cleveland Free-Net currently averages over 10,000 logins a day from users eager to access its publicly available information, e-mail, and newsgroups. Grundner started the National Public Telecomputing Network (NPTN) to actively help organizations develop Free-Nets in other cities. By the autumn of 1993 there will be some 20 Free-Nets in operation, and another 45 committees to organize new ones. Three Free-Nets are in foreign countries. While the Free-Net concept appears most frequently in cities, it has recently begun an outreach program for rural areas. [GO] to the server _nptn.org_ for information on NPTN. One of the central goals of NPTN is to see how this medium can be used to bring people closer to the democratic process. Users can read documents from American political history, selected congressional bills, and Supreme Court decisions. In 1990, Free-Nets in Ohio posted biographical information and position papers for numerous candidates. Similar services were provided nationwide for the 1992 Presidential campaigns. In the future, NPTN hopes to get the elected officials and candidates to talk to the public online, directly. E-mail: tmg@nptn.org Following is Tom Grundner's statement about government policy and community networks. An NREN That Includes Everyone _by Tom Grundner_ James Madison perhaps said it best when he wrote: A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. While Madison was a master of the print medium, he could not have envisioned the development of computerized information and communications systems. Instead it is left to each succeeding generation to examine the current technologies of their day and to use them in spreading knowledge. At the moment, for example, we are considering the development of an NREN--a National Research and Education Network. Yet, to me, the NREN makes no sense in the absence of the parallel development of free, public access, community computer systems-- systems which would be to computerized information as the free public library was to the printed word. Indeed, perhaps it is time for us to re-think Madison's words. Perhaps what is needed is not an NREN, but an NCON--a National COmmunity Network. This network would need enough conceptual bandwidth to include the university researchers, but also recognize that a parent seeking information on the latest flu bug is a researcher too. An NCON would think in terms of K-100, not just K-12 or K-16. Whether we are going to enter the Information Age is no longer at issue -- we are. The only question that remains is whether we are going to harness this technology to provide ...the power which knowledge gives and to provide it with equity. _(Go to next community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
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E, evo sada malo što je trebalo na početku :) [Go Find Out] [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] FREE-NETS AND COMMUNITIES _by Linda Mui_ _________________________________________________________________ The Free-Net Movement Most people agree that the Internet is a wonderful resource. But a resource for whom? Technology is great for those of us who can readily take advantage of it. But what does the Internet mean to people who don't work in the computer industry? Computer professionals are really impressed by networking and all its possibilities, but why should anyone else be? Well, one answer is in the Free-Net movement that's emerged over the past few years. The Free-Net is based on the idea of offering a publicly-accessible computer system that provides e-mail access, information about government and community services, newspaper feeds, library catalog access, bulletin boards, public documents, and whatever else the community finds important (and which someone volunteers to put in place). As the name says, it's all free. Some of the information is kept on local disk, but the true model of the Free-Net is to provide links to other sites--for example, if you ask for the latest weather information, the Free-Net connects you to the weather server at the University of Michigan. The first Free-Net was developed at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland by Dr. Tom Grundner. Since then, several more Free-Nets have popped up, primarily in the United States. Free-Nets are also starting to take hold in Canada, New Zealand, and Finland. The National Public Telecomputing Network (NPTN) is a non-profit central organization that helps Free-Nets get started. Based on the model of PBS or NPR, the NPTN maintains a collection of resources and tools that all Free-Nets can use. See the article entitled "Leaders of Community Networking" in this issue of _GNN Magazine_ to learn more about Dr. Grundner and the NPTN. Free-Nets are fully funded both by local communities and private sponsors. This means that none of the cost of connecting is passed on to the user: all you need to use a Free-Net is a way to access it. You can connect to Free-Nets via _telnet_, by dialing in via modem, or by using public-access terminals located at universities or libraries. You are usually restricted to 60 minutes per login. (Access may be free, but it's not always easy. The dial-up lines for the more popular Free-Nets are constantly tied up. Even if you use _telnet_, the Cleveland machine is frequently busy, often asking you to "Please try again later.") Structure of Free-Nets Most Free-Nets provide a "guest" account for new or occasional users (like me). If you have Internet access, just _telnet_ to a Free-Net site and you should see instructions telling you which login name a guest should use. (Be warned that at this writing, some Free-Nets don't provide guest access.) Free-Nets are menu-driven systems. The main menu includes several categories, such as administration, e-mail, government, schools, library, news, etc. No two Free-Nets have exactly the same menu structure. To simulate the organization of a community, menu categories are often given names of buildings you might find in a small town -- the Administration Building, the Post Office, the Government Center, the Schoolhouse, etc. You might go to the Courthouse for legal advice, or to the Hospital to get the latest medical information. For example, this is the main menu of the pioneer Cleveland Free-Net: >> 1 The Administration Building 2 The Post Office 3 Public Square 4 The Courthouse & Government Center 5 The Arts Building 6 Science and Technology Center 7 The Medical Arts Building 8 The Schoolhouse (Academy One) 9 The Community Center & Recreation Area 10 The Business and Industrial Park 11 The Library 12 University Circle 13 The Teleport 14 The Communications Center 15 NPTN/USA TODAY HEADLINE NEWS ------------------------------------------------ h=Help, x=Exit Free-Net, "go help"=extended help Your Choice ==> To move to a particular "area" of the town, you can browse through the menus by typing its number at the arrow prompt (==>), followed by RETURN or ENTER. You can backtrack to the previous menu using "p" at the arrow prompt. As shortcuts, Free-Nets provide special keywords that allow you to jump to an area without having to wade through the menus -- for example, typing "go admin" might bring you to the administration building. The Administration Building or Headquarters is where you can learn more about the Free-Net itself and how to register for it. You need to register for the Free-Net if you want to send or receive e-mail. In addition, some Free-Nets prevent unregistered users from posting to bulletin boards or from connecting to other sites via gopher. The Cleveland Free-Net requires you to be 21 or older to access some services, meaning you must be registered before you can use them. If the Free-Net provides guest access, then you don't have to register just to browse through the Free-Net and see what it has to offer. Free-Net Services So what does a Free-Net have to offer? Let's go through a few of the services. * E-mail access. At the "Post Office" or "Communications Center," you can send and receive mail messages from anyone on the Internet. All Free-Nets provide e-mail for their registered users. * On-line library catalogs. From a Free-Net, you can connect to the catalogs of local libraries and find out which library carries a particular book you're looking for. (You can even find out if it's currently on loan.) Some Free-Nets also provide a gopher link to the Library of Congress. See the article in this issue entitled "Dear Mr. President" for more information on connecting to the Library of Congress. * Historical documents. The U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence are available on-line from many Free-Nets. This comes in handy during those lunchtime arguments over the wording of the 19th Amendment. * Other important documents. Texts of recent Supreme Court opinions are often on-line within an hour of their release, via Project Hermes. * Statistics and more statistics. The Buffalo Free-Net has the Consumer Price Index and New York State census information. The National Capital Free-Net in Ottawa provides recently-published statistics on Canadian employment and earnings, as well as statistics of less universal interest, such as "Stocks of Frozen Meat Products," and "Process Cheese and Instant Skim Milk Powder, June 1993." * Public documents, such as the Federal Budget. You can try printing out a copy at home if you're a dedicated tree-hater. * Usenet news. Many Free-Nets have at least a partial Usenet feed. * Real news. The Cleveland Free-Net has a feed from USA Today. The Ottawa Free-Net has feeds from Radio Free Europe, China News Digest, and Croatia News. Local papers sometimes list community cultural and sports events, or put their letters to the editor on a bulletin board. * Science and medical news. The Victoria Free-Net lets you connect to news from NASA. Almost all Free-Nets are swimming in medical information; for example, on the Victoria Free-Net there's lots you can learn about living with diabetes. The Denver Free-Net has information for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease sufferers, and the American Red Cross keeps readers of the Heartland Free-Net well informed. * Access for students. "Academy One" is a program that enables K-12 schools to connect to the Free-Net and participate in telecomputing. * Professional advice. Some Free-Nets provide bulletin boards for posting questions for doctors or lawyers. Cleveland has "ask-a-doctor" and "ask-a-lawyer" bulletin boards. The Heartland Free-Net in Peoria offers "Ask Mr. Science" and also an "ask-a-vet" bulletin board. * Other advice. Free-Nets often provide a more general discussion area, giving users the opportunity to spout off about whatever they want. The most elaborate of these is the Public Square on the Cleveland Free-Net. The Public Square in Cleveland also includes "polling places," in which users can submit issues and then vote on them. * Government contacts and information. This is one of the most ambitious goals of the Free-Net movement: to have direct access to the local, state, and federal governments. (The Ottawa Free-Net takes this one step further -- they have an area for use by foreign embassies. So far, France is the only participant.) Thus far, federal involvement is pretty minimal for both American and Canadian sites, limited to listings of addresses and phone numbers for senators and representatives. But most Free-Nets have been very successful in getting local governments involved. Almost all Free-Nets have listings of office phone numbers for local officials in surrounding towns. In addition, town council meeting minutes are put on line, as well as announcements of future agendas. The Canadian Free-Nets are more ambitious: the Victoria Free-Net draws information from many ministries in British Columbia (often through gopher links) to get road reports, statistics, tourist information, and environmental information. The Ottawa Police take part in the Ottawa Free-Net, monitoring a question-and-answer bulletin board and providing statistics about local crime. * Social services. To me, this is the most valuable resource of a Free-Net: to provide a medium in which local social service organizations or community action groups can distribute information consistently and cheaply. Many Free-Nets (notably, Buffalo) have extensive lists of services for senior citizens. The Denver Free-Net includes information from the Colorado Literacy Hotline, tips from the Metropolitan Denver Better Business Bureau, and notices from the Denver Dumb Friends League, a service for pet owners. The Heartland Free-Net in Peoria has information on Boy Scout programs, and the Victoria Free-Net has listings of adult education classes. This is where the community spirit of Free-Nets comes to life. The big gap the Free-Nets fill is that they give you a direct way to find out what resources your town has for your particular issues. This might range from needing to know where you can get free tax advice, to just finding out if there are any local Star Trek fan clubs nearby. The best testament I can give to the Free-Net movement is that after browsing through Free-Nets in far-away towns, I've started to wonder when one will be started in my own area. The Free-Nets that are out there are still pretty scrawny; large areas turn out to be "under development," and you have to wonder how often the information is updated. But they're clearly a great resource for getting community information dispersed. I now know more about community services in Denver now than I do about Cambridge, where I live. Through a WAIS database of clubs and societies in Victoria, I've learned about 6 different bridge clubs in Victoria, Canada, which is 6 more than I know about here in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Don't fret, though. A Free-Net for your area may be in development as we speak. The NPTN gives licenses and support to groups who want to start Free-Nets in particular areas. Even though there may not be a Free-Net in your area, you can contact the NPTN to find out if one is starting, and if so, who to contact if you want to help. [GO] to the server _nptn.org_ for information on NPTN. If no Free-Nets have been started in your area and you have the time, resources, and interest, the NPTN will help you start an organizing committee and provide you with software and know-how. I've read many articles on the data superhighway and have heard claims about how useful all this networking will someday be in our everyday lives. The Free-Net is the first concrete example I've seen of how we might reap some of those promised benefits today. For further information: * [GET] an article on Tom Grundner, the leader of the Free-Net movement. * [GO] to the server alfred.carleton.ca for historical and policy papers related to Free-Nets and other community networking. * [GO] for background on Free-Nets and papers from a conference on Free-Nets. _(Go to next article...)_ _________________________________________________________________ [Go Find Out] [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
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[GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Leaders of Community Networking _________________________________________________________________ People Who Create Online Communities On rare occasions a progressive local government sets up a community network, like PEN in Santa Monica, California. But usually, networks are created by groups of ordinary citizens -- or not so ordinary ones, as we shall see -- in the face of incredible technical, financial, and political barriers. This article describes the work of seven people who have played important roles in community networking, and offers a brief statement about government policy from each one. Some of the leaders discuss what community networks need from the government in order to prosper, while others suggest what the networks can do to change how government runs. Although their projects span a broad array of topics and locales, these people share a sense of vision, a commitment to hard work, and the achievement of impressive results. Often they have not been paid for their networking activities, but manage to squeeze the work into other jobs or do it on the side. The article begins with two political activists, Evelyn Pine and Richard Civille, whose experiences span a wide range of networking activities. Pine and Civille have drawn some deep conclusions about the value of telecomputing in public life. The article continues with Anne Fallis, Frank Odasz, and Dave Hughes. Each has become famous in the telecomputing world by building strong communities through the very simple, low-tech means of electronic bulletin boards. All of them are now engaged in broader initiatives: state-wide, nationally, and even internationally. Next comes Tom Grundner, leader of the Free-Net movement, the single largest collection of community networks today. [GET] another article that describes what Free-Nets offer. Last is an international perspective from Dutch system administrator Felipe Rodriquez. While community networking places a high value on access to information, it doesn't stop with facts. At the heart of any such project is the desire to build a feeling of community. Often the project seeks to improve the opportunities for its members to talk together, share resources in new ways, or find work. And perhaps most of all, community networking seeks to get citizens more involved in governing themselves. What the leaders in this article tell us is that community networking is powerful--but fragile. Its spread requires supportive government policies, an educated public, and a feeling of commitment by people to their communities. In the United States, the decisions made for the National Information Infrastructure over the next few years may determine whether community networks remain scattered experiments or succeed in reaching millions. EVELYN PINE: ELECTRONIC DEMOCRACY MUST COME FROM US RICHARD CIVILLE: THE CIVIC PROMISE OF THE NAT'L INFORMATION INFRASTRUCTURE ANNE FALLIS: PEOPLE USING NETWORKS CAN HAVE AN IMPACT ON GOVERNMENT FRANK ODASZ: COMMUNITY NETWORKS BENEFIT FEDERAL GOALS DAVE HUGHES: THE ELECTRONIC PUBLIC INTEREST VERSUS THE PRIVATE GOOD TOM GRUNDNER: A NREN THAT INCLUDES EVERYONE FELIPE RODRIQUEZ: THE WORLDWIDE IMPACT OF NETWORK ACCESS For further information: * [GO] to the server alfred.carleton.ca for historical and policy papers related to Free-Nets and other community networking. * [GO] to a University of Saskatchewan server for background * [GO] for articles on community networking maintained by the Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility. * [GO] for statements from the Center for Civic Networking. [GO] for information maintained by the WELL on a number of community networks. _(Go to first community leader...)_ [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home]
strani.sistemi.182 peca.st, -> #180, .bale.
!-> E, evo sada malo što je trebalo na početku :) Jao bre, zašto ovo sve nije išlo kao fajl, prepuni mi pad... :((( Peđa.
strani.sistemi.183 vstan, -> #173, .bale.
>Evo nastavka onog teksta "Leaders of... (sta ti ja znam)". > > [GNN Magazine] [GNN Home] Ako imas milosti kaci to u fajl !
strani.sistemi.184 niklaus, -> #172, snemcev
(:> Jesi li pokušao da preneseš fajl na 4800 bps? CONNECT 1200/REL CONNECT 1200 / 11-18-93 (02:40:16) (Error Correcting Modem Detected) Ć ABM BBS ■ Ljubljana ■ Slovenija ž PCBoard (R) v15.0/100 - Node 3 - PFE11A8D28FAA 4800? Daleko bilo... (: ): (:niklaus:)
strani.sistemi.185 .bale.,
OK, imacu milosti sledeci put :)
strani.sistemi.186 dejanr,
Ne kaže džabe u Jevanđelju "Ne sudite prenagljeno". Mi ovde optužismo i osudismo SysOp-a QSD-a da nas je iz političkih razloga odsekao, kad ono... izgleda da čovek nije ništa kriv i da je zasluga za ono 'access barred' na sasvim drugoj strani. Pazite ovo, sa jednog piratskog BBS-a: From: Bayern.Power%bbs@sectec.greenie.muc.de (Bayern Power) It's not the fault of the sysop of QSD. It's the network managers in ex-YU who were tired of all the fraudulent calls to QSD, so they disabled access to all NUAs starting with 02080570 (not only QSD!). Croatia was the first, then Serbia & Slovenia made the same move; finally, Macedonia blacklisted QSD, too. YU is not the only country to take these steps, though; QSD has been unreachable from Turkey since a *long* time (I hacked a couple of systems there), and just two weeks before YU, Australia (both AustPac and OTC Data Access) barred QSD. Oh well...
strani.sistemi.187 zonjic, -> #173, .bale.
Bale, a sto ga ne attachova? (mada ja sa teskom mukom koristim attach ;) Inace, mislim da se zaboravio onu poruku o Radivoju Zonjicu :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) toliko o skromnosti, Rade
strani.sistemi.188 astral,
HAJ, NEHAJ !! Bale, ako imas i malo milosti, ATTACH !! Plaese, please, please, please.... CENZURISANI.
strani.sistemi.189 spantic, -> #186, dejanr
> It's not the fault of the sysop of QSD. It's the network managers in ex-YU > who were tired of all the fraudulent calls to QSD, so they disabled access > to all NUAs starting with 02080570 (not only QSD!). Croatia was the first, > then Serbia & Slovenia made the same move; finally, Macedonia blacklisted Uh, pa ko da besplatno daju korišćenje JUPAK-a.
strani.sistemi.190 dr.grba,
bale, lepi tekstovi, možda ih čak i pročitam, ali brate, imaš opciju za ATTACH file uz poruku, probaj kako radi, leba ti... ):
strani.sistemi.191 domana, -> #182, peca.st
~~~ Jao bre, zasto ovo sve nije islo kao fajl, prepuni mi pad... :((( A ja se bas pitam zasto mi je pad 40 kb :) Pyc
strani.sistemi.192 draganm, -> #186, dejanr
*> From: Bayern.Power%bbs@sectec.greenie.muc.de (Bayern Power) Otkud sysadm jednog legalnog bbs-a na Secret Tectonics-u ? :)))))) -=> Phantom Lord <=-/.CoRRoSioN.
strani.sistemi.194 dejanr, -> #189, spantic
>> > It's not the fault of the sysop of QSD. It's the network managers >> > in ex-YU who were tired of all the fraudulent calls to QSD, so they >> > disabled access to all NUAs starting with 02080570... >> >> Uh, pa ko da besplatno daju korišćenje JUPAK-a. Pa, ne daju besplatno, ali ako ćemo da budemo iskreni ;) dosta ljudi ovako ili onako koristi JUPAK a ne plaća ga iz svog džepa :) Verovatno najveći broj "sedača" na QSD-u spada u tu grupu. I što je najčudnije nije to samo kod nas - i po svetu, koliko sam video, hakeri retko plaćaju komunikacione troškove. Provaljuju lozinke, blue-box-uju, nalaze brojeve tuđih kreditnih kartica, šta ga znam šta sve rade, ali ruku u svoj džep retko zavlače. Dok ih jednom ne ukebaju, naravno.
strani.sistemi.195 v.nesic, -> #188, astral
> Bale, ako imas i malo milosti, ATTACH !! Look who's talking :>>>>> U pad, u pad, u pad ... SADISTA
strani.sistemi.196 dr.grba, -> #194, dejanr
>> troškove. Provaljuju lozinke, blue-box-uju, nalaze brojeve tuđih Šta je blue-box?
strani.sistemi.197 dejanr, -> #196, dr.grba
>> Šta je blue-box? Zvanje telefonom bez plaćanja računa. Tj. slanje nekog zvučnog signala koji "zbuni" poštu da misli da je veza prekinuta pa ne otkucava impulse, a veza i dalje traje... Onemogućeno je u mnogim državama širom sveta.
strani.sistemi.198 .bata., -> #197, dejanr
ŔŔŔ Onemoguceno je u mnogim drzavama sirom sveta. samo da kazem: ;>>>>>>> -=> BaTa <=-./CoRRoSioN.
strani.sistemi.199 magician, -> #197, dejanr
­=> Onemogućeno je u mnogim državama širom sveta. Mi i nemamo državu, so? Magician.
strani.sistemi.200 slom,
Evo nekih zanimljivih usluga koje pruza Compuserve: Udjete u mail podsistem otkucate poruku i na pitanje "To whom?" odgovorite sa: >FAX:38111123456 <- slanje faksa na broj +381 11 123-456 >TLX:123456789 ABCD YU <- slanje teleksa >POSTAL <- pita vas dalje za adresu na koju ce da posalje pismo odstampano na laserskom stampacu. SEZAME sta cekas ? :) sm
strani.sistemi.201 m.hristodulo, -> #194, dejanr
>> Pa, ne daju besplatno, ali ako cemo da budemo >> iskreni ;) dosta ljudi ovako ili onako koristi >> JUPAK a ne placa ga iz svog dzepa :) Verovatno >> najveci broj "sedaca" na QSD-u spada u tu grupu. To sigurno nije razlog da celu jednu seriju brojeva maltene ukinu za zvanje. Kao sto rekoh, to bi bilo isto kao kad bi PTT zabranila da se zove broj 648422 jer su 12 linija na njemu non-stop zauzete. Jedino olaksanje je sto su se pre nase, toga setile i neke poste po drugim zemljama.
strani.sistemi.203 snemcev, -> #196, dr.grba
>> Šta je blue-box? Grbo?!? Zar i ti sine Brute? ;)) PS Blue box je mala spravica koja "ubedi" računar u pošti da ti ne registruje impulse za vezu koja je u toku.
strani.sistemi.204 eotek, -> #200, slom
> >FAX:38111123456 <- slanje faksa na broj +381 11 123-456 > >TLX:123456789 ABCD YU <- slanje teleksa > >POSTAL <- pita vas dalje za adresu na koju ce da > posalje pismo odstampano na laserskom DA, to je ono pravo. ove usluge se pominju se na bitnetu (".. u razvoju su .."), posta razmislja na tu temu ... trebalo bi uraditi u skladu sa X.400/500, dodati i telegram, pa je onda sve tu. za potpun uspeh trebalo bi da se obezbedi i prijem (sa tlx,fax...) u mail-box, uz opcioni automatski retransfer (na dial-in,tlx,fax...). sve to jos da ide (medjumesno i medjunarodno) brzim vezama, da ne bude vezano samo na jednom mestu (BG) vec i napr. NS, NI,PG - i to bi bilo to. kleine perica's dreams || first (winner takes all) ? etsc
strani.sistemi.205 dsoskic, -> #188, astral
> Bale, ako imas i malo milosti, ATTACH !! Niko te ne tera da čitaš njegove poruke.... ;)) :)) ;)) :))