PCHARD.6

02 Jul 1995 - 19 Oct 1997

Topics

  1. sistemi (183)
  2. mikroprocesori (544)
  3. maticne.ploce (1113)
  4. diskovi (2401)
  5. video (1276)
  6. dodaci (450)
  7. matricni (339)
  8. laseri (428)
  9. mreze (203)
  10. kvarovi (798)
  11. nabavka (727)
  12. benchmark (37)
  13. razno (1216)
  14. inkjet (283)
  15. unknown (2)

Messages - mikroprocesori

mikroprocesori.210 meco, -> #208, mango
Da ne citiram, vodili smo rasparavu oko p5 i Cryix 133: Da C 133 ima koporocesor, ima.(a ne kao 486 SLC) Apsolutno si upravu (mea culpa): Ljudima koji se bave muzikom,wordom,pa mogu reci i igrama (jer na kraju krajeva ne treba bactai pare na skuplji procesor) na racunaru, NE TREBA P5 tu je C 133 "dovoljan". Sto se tice PPS ili PSS mislim da si upravu, ali nisam 100% siguran. :) i jos jedna poslovica za kraj ali sada og mrs.Murphey-a: FIRST LAW OF DEBATE: Never argue with a fool - people might not know the difference. PS sto se tice poslovice: ne odnosi se na nikoga. :)
mikroprocesori.211 vstan, -> #209, djale
> Narode kome da se obratim po pitanju MIKROKONTROLERA? Konferencija Orka:elektron. O tome je ranije dosta pisano.
mikroprocesori.212 kostja, -> #206, canny
=> Imam prilike da vidim kako radi K5. Nije los mada ipak mnogi savetuju => Cyrix-a jer je AMD jedva izbacio i K5 PR133 a Cyrix ima i 200+. AMD ne zuri bas... inace napolju ima da se nadje AMD PR150, ocekuje se uskoro i PR166. Samo su izgleda uzeli fazon Cyrix-a, to jest PR133 radi na 100MHz. Normalno isto vredi i za PR150 (120MHz) i PR166 (133MHz).
mikroprocesori.213 ivan.hoe, -> #210, meco
>FIRST LAW OF DEBATE: Never argue with a fool - people might > not know the difference. > PS sto se tice poslovice: ne odnosi se na nikoga. :) Kod Marfija si prošao, ali si gramatiku pao: kaže se ni na koga :)))
mikroprocesori.214 mango, -> #210, meco
> FIRST LAW OF DEBATE: Never argue with a fool - people might > not know the difference. Hvala na preporuci- vise to zaista necu raditi. P.S. Zar na sezamu zaista nije nista ostalo sem vredjanja?
mikroprocesori.215 sasab, -> #213, ivan.hoe
> Kod Marfija si prošao, ali si gramatiku pao: kaže se ni na koga > :))) Čovek je iz Niš Bogi
mikroprocesori.216 zvezdan, -> #201, vojas
>> Odgovor na 2.199, biber, 11.01.97. 06:17 >> >> T?>> Rekao bih da preterujes.Razlika koju navodis (1:2)je izmedu 486 i >> T?>> Pentiuma. >> >> U rachunarima 123 su rekli da je k5 za nijansu sporiji od intelovog pentiuma. >> Kome verovati?! Pa pre chu njima Ne mogu a da ne primetim da je odgovor upucen upravo autoru pomenutog natpisa u Računarima. :))) BTW, činjenica je da je AMD-ov procesor dosta sličan po brzini Intel-ovom, a testovi nisu bili Norton Bench i sl., već realne aplikacije kao što je spomenuti 3DS. Ono što biber nije pomenuo, MPEG kompresija nije mnogo brža na Pentium-u u odnosu na 486, bar ne onoliko koliko smo se nadali.
mikroprocesori.217 zoran.r, -> #210, meco
=> Ljudima koji se bave muzikom,wordom,pa mogu reci i => igrama (jer na kraju krajeva ne treba bactai pare na skuplji => procesor) na racunaru, NE TREBA P5 tu je C 133 "dovoljan". Ako poredimo AMD K5133 i Cyrix P133+ šta je bolje uzeti?
mikroprocesori.218 meco, -> #214, mango
"Majstore" nisam mislio ozbiljno kao sto sam i rekao. Izvini, ali volim marfija pa mi se ucinilo da je zanimljivo da navedem neki stih, ali sam ga nesrecno izabrao. PS sad ti kazem da se ne odnosi na tebe, ako nisi shavtio :)
mikroprocesori.219 meco, -> #215, sasab
>> Kod Marfija si prosao, ali si gramatiku pao: kaze se ni na koga >> :))) >Covek je iz Nis >Bogi Dakle ja sam pao iz gramatike a TI iz lepog ponasanja. Izgleda da je to mana onih koji se smatraju "Beogradjanima" , a iz neke su opstine u predgradju. Svejdno nemam nameru da vodim raspravu o gramatici, ponasanju, o onome u kome gradu ima vise seljaka (po ponasanju), jer: 1. ne znam odakle je Bogi(ali mirise na predhodno navedeno) 2. nije tema za ovu konferenciju 3. moja greska je bila lapsus lingue, a tvoja je lapsus mentis 4. na glupe fazone tipa "Covek iz Nis" (sto je uvredljivo) ja kazem ignore Bogi "vaspitani" covece mihajlo
mikroprocesori.220 meco, -> #217, zoran.r
>Ako poredimo AMD K5133 i Cyrix P133+ sta je bolje uzeti? Sa AMD K5133 na zalost nemam iskustva. A kakva je razlika u ceni ?
mikroprocesori.221 meco,
>Kod Marfija si prosao, ali si gramatiku pao: kaze se ni na koga :))) 1 licna greska. Izvinjavam se. :) lapsus lingue
mikroprocesori.222 meco, -> #215, sasab
Inace sasab je takodje iz Nisa. Pa dakle stvarno zasluzujemo da O nama (Nislijama) ljudi svasta pripisuju. JAVNO IZVINJENJE SVIMA KOJI SU SE NASLI UVREDJENIM PREDHODNOM PORUKOM
mikroprocesori.223 ivan.hoe, -> #221, meco
>>Kod Marfija si prosao, ali si gramatiku pao: kaze se ni na koga >1 licna greska. Izvinjavam se. :) >lapsus lingue Stvar je zamišljena kao šala, a ovde se napravi problem ni od čega. Još će da ispadne da sam zlonameran? :)
mikroprocesori.224 zoran.r, -> #220, meco
=>> Ako poredimo AMD K5133 i Cyrix P133+ sta je bolje uzeti? => Sa AMD K5133 na zalost nemam iskustva. A kakva je razlika u => ceni ? Pa razlika u ceni je minimalna 10-20 dm. OK, a kakav je Cyrix?
mikroprocesori.225 meco, -> #224, zoran.r
>=>> Ako poredimo AMD K5133 i Cyrix P133+ sta je bolje uzeti? > >=> Sa AMD K5133 na zalost nemam iskustva. A kakva je razlika u >=> ceni ? > Pa razlika u ceni je minimalna 10-20 dm. OK, a kakav je Cyrix? Eh, sad imam neke nove informacije: Cyrix 150+ kod druga daje index 41 u norton za win95(mada sam kod nekih vidjao i manje recimo 37, ali recimo da je to max koji sam video) Intel 150 daje u proseku oko 37- 39 u istom programu. sto se tice 133: Cyrix 133+ daje u pomenutom programu (ono sto sam ja video) 35-37 P5 133 daje najvise sto sam video 35, a uglavnom 32-34 Po nekim mojim iskustvima,cyrix 133 radi lepo, ali gubi bitku kao sto smo vec pricali, na nekim poljima(iako testovi pokazuju da je brzi)
mikroprocesori.227 tntota,
Da li sam tu video da netko nudi 486 DX4 procesor za cenu od oko 50-60 DM ? Ako vas ima takvih mail-nite mi se.
mikroprocesori.228 guta, -> #225, meco
#> Cyrix 150+ kod druga daje index 41 u norton za win95(mada sam #> kod nekih vidjao i manje recimo 37, ali recimo da je to max #> koji sam video) Intel 150 daje u proseku oko 37- 39 u istom #> programu. AMD K5 PR133, koji radi na 100Mhz, daje 40.1 u Nortonu za W95...
mikroprocesori.229 buva,
Unapred se izvinjavam ako je ovo pitanje vec postavljano ovde poshto bash nepratim ovu konf:) Kakva je razlika izmedju AMD K5 100 i AMD K5 133 ?Kolko znam oba rade na frekvenciji od 100 Mhz samo shto je ovaj drugi neshto brzhi ... zashto? I da josh neshto , na kojoj frekvenciji im rade magistrale? 50Mhz? 66Mhz? Pozdrav, Buva p.s. ako je vec postavljano pitanje, jel mozhe jedan mali pointer na broj poruke?:)
mikroprocesori.230 guta, -> #229, buva
#> Kakva je razlika izmedju AMD K5 100 i AMD K5 133 ?Kolko znam #> oba rade na frekvenciji od 100 Mhz samo shto je ovaj drugi #> neshto brzhi ... zashto? Da, oba rade na 100Mhz, samo što je ovaj drugi (prilično) brži. To je verovatno posledica drugačije (čitaj: naprednije) arhitekture. #> I da josh neshto , na kojoj frekvenciji im rade magistrale? #> 50Mhz? 66Mhz? Za verziju od 133, magistrala radi na 66Mhz, pomnoženo za 1.5.
mikroprocesori.231 dselic, -> #225, meco
> sto se tice 133: > Cyrix 133+ daje u pomenutom programu (ono sto sam ja video) 35-37 > P5 133 daje najvise sto sam video 35, a uglavnom 32-34 Meni toliko daje na K5 na 100MHz.
mikroprocesori.232 dselic, -> #229, buva
> I da josh neshto , na kojoj frekvenciji im rade magistrale? > 50Mhz? 66Mhz? U oba sluüaja radi na 66MHz.
mikroprocesori.233 alec,
Citao sam poruke o Cyrix-u i P5, ali svi ste uporedjivali Cyrix P133+ koji radi na 110MHz sa P5 na 133MHz. Intresuje me kako stvari stoje sa Cyrix-om P166+ (133MHz) i P5 133MHz ? Vredi li uzimati Cyrix ili je bolje dodati 50-ak maraka i kupiti P5 ? BTW, koje je razlika izmedju Cyrix-a P166+ i Cyrix-a PR166+ ?
mikroprocesori.234 zoxy,
IMa li kvalitativne i konkretne razlike izmedju obicnih CPU i onoh sa cooler box-om (zaliven ventilator), osim te sto ove druge ne mogu da se remarkiraju (navodno)?
mikroprocesori.235 nenad, -> #234, zoxy
> IMa li kvalitativne i konkretne razlike izmedju obicnih CPU i onoh sa > cooler box-om (zaliven ventilator), osim te sto ove druge ne mogu da > se remarkiraju (navodno)? Koliko ja znam ti sa ugrađenim (nije zaliven) hladnjakom i ventilatorom su samo Intel-ovi, a osim toga su samo takvi i zaista Intel-ovi.
mikroprocesori.236 alec, -> #235, nenad
> Koliko ja znam ti sa ugradenim (nije zaliven) hladnjakom i > ventilatorom su samo Intel-ovi, a osim toga su samo takvi i > zaista Intel-ovi. Ja sam skoro kupio Intel i nema cooler box. Ako sam dobro razumeo hoces da kazes da procesori koji nemaju cooler box nisu Intel-ovi odnosno da su fals ?
mikroprocesori.237 nenad, -> #236, alec
> Ja sam skoro kupio Intel i nema cooler box. Ako sam dobro razumeo hoces > da kazes da procesori koji nemaju cooler box nisu Intel-ovi odnosno da > su fals ? Ja mislim da je tako. Tu su naši preprodavci i najmanje krivi. Krivi su dobavljači, oni vrlo dobro znaju gde se kupuje original a gde se kupuju remarkirani procesori. Pre nekih godinu i po, kada još nije bilo tih sa kulerom, probao sam jedan Pentium na 90, pouzdano original. Reko da vidim može li da se overklokuje (izričito sam inače protiv toga) i bacim ga na 120. Posle sat vremena mi se blokirala mašina, reko - ne može. Krenem da vratim džampere i ustanovim da je jedan kabl zakačio ventilator - on je sat vremena radio na 120 bez ventilatora! Posle toga sam ga jedno mesec-dva držao tako dok cela mašina odjednom nije počela da biva nestabilna. Taj isti procesor (pouzdano original) sam takođe stavio pored jednog koji je proizveo neznani junak i na kome je _pisalo_ 120. Oba bez hladnjaka, čisto na minut da vidim kako se koji greje. Nakon 10 sekundi ovaj remarkirani je bio _vreo_, a ovaj deklarisani na 90 koji je radio na 120 samo vruć. Sve u svemu, da ga pipnem znao bi da ti kažem da li je original. :) Pravi Intel ima veliku rezervu za prestanak hlađenja, znatno se manje greje od AMD-a (remarkovi se greju i više od AMD-a) i to je ono što me je opredelilo za Intel. Cyrix nisam na žalost imao prilike da probam, ali ako bih ga i uzimao uzeo bih proizveden u IBM-u, posebno nakon priče koju sam čuo u vezi početka njihove saradnje. :) Ako imaš tower kućište, skini poklopac i nakon jedno pola sata vremena rada pipni matičnu ploču sa donje strane, na mestu gde je procesor. Ako možeš da držiš prst normalno, zatvori kućište i mirno spavaj. :)
mikroprocesori.238 zormi, -> #237, nenad
*> Ja sam skoro kupio Intel i nema cooler box. Ako sam dobro razumeo hoces *> da kazes da procesori koji nemaju cooler box nisu Intel-ovi odnosno da *> su fals ? * * Ja mislim da je tako. Intel prodaje procesore u dva pakovanja: box (sa ugradjenim coolerom) i tray (bez istog), a naručilac bira. Činjenica je da se ovi drugi lakše remarkiraju ali ne verujem da je problem prepraviti i one prve.
mikroprocesori.239 alec, -> #238, zormi
> Intel prodaje procesore u dva pakovanja: box (sa ugradjenim > coolerom) i tray (bez istog), a narucilac bira. Cinjenica je da > se ovi drugi lakse remarkiraju ali ne verujem da je problem > prepraviti i one prve. A kako da znam da li je remarkiran ili nije ?
mikroprocesori.240 mstevan,
hi! imam procesor AMD P5 na 100 MHz, tako mi barem prodavac rece. Zanimaju me opsti podaci tog procesora, posto nisam dobio nikakve 'papire'. Koliko bi se to moglo overklokovati(nabudziti) da bi proc. davao solidne rezultate? Posto bas nisam upucen u takve stvari zamolio bi vas strucnjake da prokomentarisete nesto o tom i da mi malo objasnite kako se izvodi overclocking. A5432674AE MALAY CS SU032/SSS - to pise na jednoj strani procesora BP80502100 SU032 ICOMP. INDEX=815 L6110041 INTEL (m) (c) '92'93 - to pise na drugoj strani(poledjini) a ovo je broj ploce KBT5A-'2 (ako to uopste i nesto znaci) Hvala unapred!!! P.S.:Izvinjavam se zbog malo duzeg repertoara, ali nije to nista u odnosu na neke;)
mikroprocesori.241 canny, -> #240, mstevan
> Koliko bi se to moglo overklokovati(nabudziti) da bi > proc. davao solidne rezultate? Koliko znam, AMD ne trpi overclocking, zaboravi. Ako hoćeš solidne rezultate, plati ih (kupi bolji).
mikroprocesori.242 zormi, -> #239, alec
*> se ovi drugi lakse remarkiraju ali ne verujem da je problem *> prepraviti i one prve. * * A kako da znam da li je remarkiran ili nije ? Teško. Naslušao sam se raznih recepata o obliku slova, tehnologiji upisa, zlatnim potpisima i slično. Nije čak ni merenje najvišeg mogućeg takta neka pouzdana indikacija pošto Intel izgleda ima neku drugu tehnologiju klasifikovanja procesora u seriji. Ja nabavljam od dugogodišnjeg pouzdanog isporučioca koji mi kaže "ovo su ovi a ovo su oni" (ne zato što me voli ili što je extra pošten nego što mu redovno ostavljam velike pare pa ne bi rizikovao da predjem kod drugog). Prosta provera mi je (smejaćeš se) redjanje po 10-tak komada jednih i drugih pa je "nebrušena" gomila obično malo viša ;)) Ako neko zna bolji sistem za koji nisu već čuli i "prepisivači" na Istoku... Box verzije jesu u principu pouzdaniji izbor, čak nisu ni skuplje napolju (!) ali ih dobavljači nerado uzimaju (lakše je ocariniti kutiju coolera, a procesore nositi po džepovima ;). Lično verujem da i sam Intel ima u celom tom biznisu umešane prste (rešava se sporih verzija po boljim cenama a škartove pripisuje Kinezima) tako da siguran sistem za identifikaciju teško da će biti pronadjen. "Sreća" je što procesori brzo zastarevaju pa ako rade dobro tokom garantnog roka, posle su već jeftini.
mikroprocesori.243 nenad,
AMD će uskoro početi da prodaje svoj K6 procesor, startovaće sa 200MHz i imaće licencirane MMX ekstenzije. On treba da predstavlja konkurenciju Pentium Pro-u i biće oko 25% jeftiniji od njega.
mikroprocesori.244 nenad, -> #238, zormi
> Intel prodaje procesore u dva pakovanja: box (sa ugradjenim coolerom) > i tray (bez istog), a naručilac bira. Činjenica je da se ovi drugi > lakše remarkiraju ali ne verujem da je problem prepraviti i one prve. Nije problem, ali računam da se onima koji rade remarkaciju ne isplati da simuliraju celo pakovanje, uključujući kutiju, sertifikat, uputstvo...
mikroprocesori.245 meco, -> #237, nenad
> Ja mislim da je tako. Tu su nasi preprodavci i najmanje krivi. > Krivi su dobavljaci, oni vrlo dobro znaju gde se kupuje original > a gde se kupuju remarkirani procesori. Ja imam proc. bez "zalepljenog" hladnjaka (p5 133) na kome je "urezano" 133 (nije stampano). Greje se sasvim pristojno- posle nekog vremena se zamlaci. Uz procesor sam dobio i sertifikat "Intel original" sa suhim zigom Intela. Pa predpostavljam da postoje i takvi originali. Inace u poslednje vreme (3-4) meseca nisam vido nigde >nove< procesore sa crnim zalepljenim hladnjakom. Sto se tice testa sa pipanjem nije bas sve tako jednostavno :) Mislim ajde pokusaj da over clockujes p5 133 na 150 i videces da ne daje rezultate kao orig. na 150 (sefte sto se jos i greje mnogo vise) PS. sefte(srpski kulturni recnik)- povrh svega :) mihajlo
mikroprocesori.246 meco, -> #238, zormi
> *> Ja sam skoro kupio Intel i nema cooler box. Ako sam dobro razumeo hoces > *> da kazes da procesori koji nemaju cooler box nisu Intel-ovi odnosno da > *> su fals ? > * > * Ja mislim da je tako. > > Intel prodaje procesore u dva pakovanja: box (sa ugradjenim coolerom) > i tray (bez istog), a narucilac bira. Cinjenica je da se ovi drugi > lakse remarkiraju ali ne verujem da je problem prepraviti i one prve. Cini mi se da i ja imam isto iskustvo.
mikroprocesori.247 zormi, -> #244, nenad
* računam da se onima koji rade remarkaciju ne * isplati da simuliraju celo pakovanje, uključujući kutiju, * sertifikat, uputstvo... Ta "pakovanja za krajnjeg kupca" naši (i ruski i drugi) dileri (skoro) nikad ne kupuju na Istoku pa se verovatno i ne remarkiraju. To uzimaju samo lokalni korisnici za sebe u maloprodaji PC opreme (i plaćaju više jer oni i ne mogu doći do trgovaca na veliko) dok se za proizvodnju i dalju prodaju uzimaju "OEM pakovanja" procesora sa količinama (50, 100... nedavno je firma koju znam kupila pakovanje od 1000 komada istog procesora). Izuzetak je Pentium Pro koji retko ko uzima u količinama, ali se obično sva ta ambalaža odbaci da bi bilo "više mesta i manje transportnog troška" ;)
mikroprocesori.248 kostja, -> #241, canny
=> Koliko znam, AMD ne trpi overclocking, zaboravi. Ako hoces solidne => rezultate, plati ih (kupi bolji). Kako se uzme... ja sam cisto znatizelje radi digao ovaj PR133 na 120MHz, i radi. Nisam probavao bas koliko dugo ce da izdrzi jer mi i nije preka potreba.
mikroprocesori.249 zeljkoj,
Da li AMD-ov 486X5 može da radi bez coolera?
mikroprocesori.250 dselic, -> #249, zeljkoj
> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 može da radi bez coolera? Riknuo ti kuler? ;)
mikroprocesori.251 vstan, -> #249, zeljkoj
> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 može da radi bez coolera? Može, dok se ne zagreje (pregreje).
mikroprocesori.252 zeljkoj, -> #250, dselic
>> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 može da radi bez coolera? > > Riknuo ti kuler? ;) Nije još. :) Samo ponekad tandrče par sekundi dok se ne zagreje... pa pošto će verovatno da crkne, da znam unapred šta da radim.
mikroprocesori.253 canny, -> #252, zeljkoj
> Nije još. :) > Samo ponekad tandrče par sekundi dok se ne zagreje... pa pošto > će verovatno da crkne, da znam unapred šta da radim. Kupi drugi.
mikroprocesori.254 nenad, -> #249, zeljkoj
> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 može da radi bez coolera? Bez kulera teško, bez ventilatora još i nekako - ako imaš usmereni ventilator na kućištu.
mikroprocesori.255 ppecanac, -> #249, zeljkoj
> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 moze da radi bez coolera? Moze, samo koliko ?? :) Probaj da radis neko vreme, (pola sata-sat) pa ga pipni, osetices da je prilicno vreo. Ne znam koliko je izdrzljiv. p.s. Pripazi da ne izadje onaj magicni dim iz njega. ;))
mikroprocesori.256 mango, -> #249, zeljkoj
> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 moze da radi bez coolera? Moze. Pitanje je koliko dugo;)
mikroprocesori.257 nenad,
DRAM prices likely to keep falling, PC users to gain Though forecasting DRAM market movements remains an inexact science at best, a reading of the most recent tea leaves shows continued lower prices of mainstream memory and, on the horizon, notebook PCs equipped with higher density memory chips. Ongoing turmoil in the market has left analysts and many vendors unsure of even near-term price and demand changes. "The DRAM market is still unclear," said Naoki Sato, director, technology research at Morgan Grenfell Capital Markets Ltd., in Tokyo. The growth of the market in terms of unit volume cannot be fairly projected, he said. Market researcher Dataquest said Tuesday that the current oversupply of DRAMs, though lessening since last year, should continue through this year, adding downward pricing pressure on the chips. Makers of the mainstream 16Mb DRAMs, which are used as the main memory in PCs, are still scrambling to reverse an oversupply that has helped bring prices of memory to record lows. That trend may gain momentum in the next month as some Japanese vendors try to sweep out excess inventories in advance of Japan's fiscal year's end on March 31, some analysts said. South Korean vendors, led by the world's biggest DRAM supplier Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., late last month announced plans to cut back on production and sales of 16Mb parts. The prices of 16Mb DRAMs are "getting close to a point where the market price and production cost do not break even," Samsung said. "Until the prices rise to a reasonable level, the regulation of the 16Mb DRAM production capacity will continue." The fact that Hyundai Electronics Industries Co. Ltd. and LG Semicon Co. Ltd. also announced similar plans caused some Seoul-based analysts to speculate that the Korean government was behind the moves. "When all three of them do the same thing at the same time that's often an indication that there is a little bit of orchestration going on," said one Seoul-based analyst, who asked not to be named. "These companies are not inherently in love with each other." Although 16Mb DRAM prices on the open market rose on the news, reaching as high as $8 from a low of nearly $5 a few months ago, the underlying pricing pressures are likely to drive prices back down again, analysts said. For the DRAM vendors, however, "it's a window of opportunity, it's a short-term phenomenon," said Peter Wolff, senior analyst at ING Baring Securities (Japan) Ltd. Japanese vendors are also expected to start cutting back on 16Mb DRAM production in coming months, officials said. NEC, for example, will top its 16Mb production off in March at about 13 million units per month and will gradually lower that to about 10 million by year's end, according to a company representative. On the 64Mb DRAM front, the company will double its monthly production to 1 million units in the year to March, he said. "Basically the recession in the DRAM market hit everyone hard, and we took our fair share of the punches," the representative said. "At lower-end DRAMs you are talking about a commodity market, so we see much more advantage for ourselves and our customers in moving up to the high end." Users, therefore, should continue to see bargain prices on memory modules for at least the next few months, but some analysts warned that if vendors take the glut cleanup too far, users may see slight price jumps in the middle part of 1997. Users should also benefit from vendors attempting to cushion themselves from falling 16Mb DRAM prices by shifting to the next-generation 64Mb chips sooner than planned, analysts said. If 64Mb DRAM production volumes reach a level that enables prices to be lowered, 64Mb chips will begin trickling down into high-end notebooks from their current uses in mainframes, workstations, and servers, analysts said. The outcome largely depends on NEC and Samsung, which will lead an emerging battle for the dominant 64Mb DRAM market position, according to Akira Minamikawa, a Tokyo-based semiconductor analyst at IDC Japan Ltd. "NEC quoted very aggressive February prices on 64 Megs in Japan," Minamikawa said. NEC is hoping that "if the prices are cheap enough for vendors, the notebook computer market will shift to 64 Meg quickly, then NEC might get a big market share in 64 Megs." In addition to trying to push the pricing envelope on the higher density 64Mb chips, the leading Japanese and Korean vendors are also trying to speed up the market transition to higher performance synchronous DRAMs, in an effort to leave weaker competitors, such as the Taiwanese vendors, in the dust, analysts said. "They are trying to take the Taiwanese out at the knees," said one analyst. At the same time, however, the heavy dependence of many Japanese and Korean vendors on memory chips, combined with the generally bleak outlook for DRAMs, is causing many vendors to try to branch out into what are perceived to be more stable markets in non-memory semiconductors, they added. Samsung, for example, has signed manufacturing deals for Digital Equipment's Alpha chips as well as Microsoft's forthcoming Talisman media processors, said Matt Cleary, an electronics analyst at securities broker HG Asia's Seoul office. "Samsung was chosen for those because it's huge, it's got lots of capacity, and because it also has a systems capacity that hopefully can drive some of these applications," said Cleary.
mikroprocesori.258 alec, -> #251, vstan
>> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 moze da radi bez coolera? > > Moze, dok se ne zagreje (pregreje). A sta kad se pregreje ? ;)
mikroprocesori.259 nenad,
Najsvežije: Intel last week demonstrated the Intel Pentium Pro architecture running at 433 MHz. The company said it has seen 451-MHz performance in the lab.
mikroprocesori.260 darth.vader, -> #258, alec
>> > Moze, dok se ne zagreje (pregreje). >> A sta kad se pregreje ? ;) Auuuuuuu ;)))
mikroprocesori.261 orlic, -> #248, kostja
=> Koliko znam, AMD ne trpi overclocking, zaboravi. Ako hoces solidne => rezultate, plati ih (kupi bolji). Ko> Kako se uzme... ja sam cisto znatizelje radi digao ovaj PR133 Ko> na 120MHz, i radi. Nisam probavao bas koliko dugo ce da Ko> izdrzi jer mi i nije preka potreba. Hm, ja PR100 (100Mhz) nisam naterao ni na 110... :)
mikroprocesori.262 orlic, -> #256, mango
> Da li AMD-ov 486X5 moze da radi bez coolera? Ma> Moze. Pitanje je koliko dugo;) Ma radi bez ventilatora ok... nazalost, provereno... ;)
mikroprocesori.263 mango, -> #257, nenad
> Although 16Mb DRAM prices on the open market rose on the news, > reaching as high as $8 from a low of nearly $5 a few months ago, > the underlying pricing pressures are likely to drive prices back > down again, analysts said. ??? Nije moguce da je toliko dzabe? :)
mikroprocesori.264 zeljkoj, -> #263, mango
> ??? Nije moguce da je toliko dzabe? :) Kao što i piše, radi se o čipovima od 16 megaBITA (Mb)...
mikroprocesori.265 n.ceh, -> #258, alec
> Moze, dok se ne zagreje (pregreje). Al> A sta kad se pregreje ? ;) PUFFFF! Pocne da se gusi, i eventualno zagori. Ceh.
mikroprocesori.266 gogica,
Hteo bi da ubrzam Pentium 120 na 133MHz, ali problem sto nisam siguran da je on stvarno Pentium 120 a ne remarkirani 100. Znaci: Kako da proverim da je Pentium 120 stvarno to?
mikroprocesori.267 mango, -> #264, zeljkoj
>> ??? Nije moguce da je toliko dzabe? :) > > Kao sto i pise, radi se o cipovima od 16 megaBITA (Mb)... Pise lepo, samo kad se pazljivo cita:)
mikroprocesori.268 alec,
Imam jedan problemcic. Hteo sam da overclockujem pentium 133 na 166MHz. Stavio sam da mnozi 2.5x66 i kad sam upalio komjuter i dalje je pisalo PENTIUM-S CPU at 133MHz ? Ajde probam ja da overclockujem na 150MHz, stavim 2.5x60, ukljucim komp i pise PENTIUM-S CPU at 120MHz ?? Probao sam i 3x50 ali onda prijavi PENTIUM-S CPU at 75MHz? Dakle, kako da ga nateram da radi na vise od 133MHz ? I ako bi neko mogao da mi objasni sta je to remarkiran procesor, da nije mozda ovaj moj remarkiran ?
mikroprocesori.269 zormi, -> #257, nenad
* DRAM prices likely to keep falling, PC users to gain Ne znam otkud ovo, ali na Istoku cene (EDO) memorija opet malo rastu...
mikroprocesori.270 zormi, -> #268, alec
* Imam jedan problemcic. Hteo sam da overclockujem pentium 133 na 166MHz. Pentium 133 ne može da množi takt sa 2.5. Treba ti bar P5/150.
mikroprocesori.271 ranx, -> #268, alec
> nateram da radi na vise od 133MHz ? Koliko ja znam, nikako. Original Pentiumi su fabrički ograničeni na tu frekvenciju koja je na njima napisana. Znači, nema overclockinga.
mikroprocesori.272 ranx, -> #269, zormi
> Ne znam otkud ovo, ali na Istoku cene (EDO) memorija opet malo rastu... Zbog rasta dolara u odnosu na marku.
mikroprocesori.273 zormi, -> #272, ranx
*> Ne znam otkud ovo, ali na Istoku cene (EDO) memorija opet malo rastu... * * Zbog rasta dolara u odnosu na marku. To je bilo do pre par dana (marka prilično ujednačeno pada u poslednja dva meseca), sada su žešće skočile. Možda je privremena nestašica zbog kineskog novaka...
mikroprocesori.274 orlic, -> #268, alec
Al> Imam jedan problemcic. Hteo sam da overclockujem pentium 133 na Al> 166MHz. Stavio sam da mnozi 2.5x66 i kad sam upalio komjuter i dalje je Al> pisalo PENTIUM-S CPU at 133MHz ? Ajde probam ja da overclockujem na Al> 150MHz, stavim 2.5x60, ukljucim komp i pise PENTIUM-S CPU at 120MHz ?? Al> Probao sam i 3x50 ali onda prijavi PENTIUM-S CPU at 75MHz? Dakle, kako Al> da ga nateram da radi na vise od 133MHz ? Al> I ako bi neko mogao da mi objasni sta je to remarkiran procesor, da Al> nije mozda ovaj moj remarkiran ? :) Moguce i to.. Imam ja isti problem. Koja je ploca u pitanju? Ovde je rec o GA ATE ploci...
mikroprocesori.275 alec, -> #274, orlic
> :) Moguce i to.. Imam ja isti problem. Koja je ploca u pitanju? > Ovde je rec o GA ATE ploci... Ploca je jedne velike i jako dobre firme 'NoName' VX ;)
mikroprocesori.276 nenad,
Naslednik Pentim Pro-a će se zvati Pentuim II, podržavaće MMX ektenzije, imaće 32KB internog keša i radiće na 266MHz Pentium i Pentim Pro se povlače sa tržišta, ostaju Pentium MMX i Pentium II. A prvi PC računar je radio na 4,7MHz i imao svega 64K - cela dva interna keša novog mikroprocesora! :)
mikroprocesori.277 nenad,
Intel's 64-bit 'Merced' chip won't ship until 1999 Intel Corp.'s first 64-bit processor, code-named Merced, is now scheduled to hit the market sometime in 1999. Contrary to widely published reports that late 1998 was the target date for the processor, Intel spokeswoman Marion Koehler said the company has never publicly committed to a time frame except to say the chip would be released by the year 2000. The shift means that Microsoft Corp.'s 64-bit version of Windows NT won't appear until 1999. Microsoft and Intel executives said at last September's NetWorld+Interop show that they would synchronize the release of their respective 64-bit products. Merced is a high-end server processor with both CISC and RISC properties. Intel worked with Hewlett-Packard Co. on the initial design; however, Intel will be responsible for manufacturing, marketing and licensing.
mikroprocesori.278 zoran.r,
Časopis BYTE je koristeći Adobe Photoshop 4.0 testirao procesore: 1. Pentium Pro200 MHz 2. Pentium 200 MHz 3. Pentium 200 MHz MMX 4. Cyrix 166+ 5. 200 MHz PowerPC 604e Rezultati su vrlo zanimljivi a možete ih videti na grafikonu prikačenom uz ovu poruku. 027bita2.gif
mikroprocesori.279 dr.grba, -> #278, zoran.r
>> 4. Cyrix 166+ Nisam baš najbolje upućen, pa da pitam: koliko ima smisla porediti ovaj procesor sa ostalima? Zar je to ista klasa?
mikroprocesori.280 darth.vader, -> #279, dr.grba
>> >> 4. Cyrix 166+ >> Nisam bas najbolje upucen, pa da pitam: koliko ima smisla >> porediti ovaj procesor sa ostalima? Zar je to ista klasa? Pa koliko pljuju po njemu, malo fali da ga svrstaju sa 386icama... :(
mikroprocesori.281 nenad, -> #279, dr.grba
> Nisam baš najbolje upućen, pa da pitam: koliko ima smisla porediti > ovaj procesor sa ostalima? Zar je to ista klasa? Nije, čak šta više radi na nekih 60% frekvencije u odnosu na ove testirane, a i cena je prilično manja. Verovatno je u izbor uključen jer predstavlja trenutno najjači procesor firme Cyrix, a i izbor tzv. "consumer" marketa. Inače, kad smo kod Cyrix-a, kome u poslednje vreme jako dobro ide, oni će tokom ove godine izbaciti na tržište svoju konkurenciju Intel-ovom Pentim Pro i Pentium II procesoru, imaće i MMX ekstenzije, a najveća prednost u odnosu na Intel-ove će biti dobra podrška i dobici u brzini i za 16-bitne instrukcije (Pentium Pro je optimizovan samo za 32-bitne instrukcije), znači prednosti će osetiti i korisnici Windows-a 3.11 i Windows-a 95 čiji su niži delovi i kernel i dalje 16-tobitni.
mikroprocesori.282 alec, -> #281, nenad
> Inace, kad smo kod Cyrix-a, kome u poslednje vreme jako dobro > ide, oni ce tokom ove godine izbaciti na trziste svoju > konkurenciju Intel-ovom Pentim Pro i Pentium II procesoru, > imace i MMX ekstenzije, a najveca prednost u odnosu na > Intel-ove ce biti dobra podrska i dobici u brzini i za 16-bitne > instrukcije E, jos kad bi i FPU poboljsali...
mikroprocesori.283 ranx, -> #281, nenad
> Nije, čak šta više radi na nekih 60% frekvencije u odnosu na ove Obzirom na frekvenciju na kojoj radi i na odnos cena, moram priznati da sam prijatno iznenađen. Cool Buy, što bi se reklo!
mikroprocesori.284 nenad,
Intel opet tuži, ovoga puta i AMD i Cyrix, ovoga puta zbog MMX-a. Intel files suit against AMD, Cyrix over MMX moniker Intel on Friday filed suit against chip vendors Advanced Micro Devices and Cyrix in U.S. District Court in Delaware, claiming the companies have infringed on Intel's trademark on MMX. The MMX acronym stands for the multimedia extension technology that is built in to Intel's latest microprocessors. The suit alleges that AMD and Cyrix have designed and begun implementing strategies to improperly leverage Intel's investment in the MMX name, which Intel claims could result in confusion in the minds of consumers as they make buying decisions. The suit seeks preliminary and permanent injunctive relief along with unspecified damages and fees. Neither Cyrix nor AMD, which both plan to release their own multimedia-enabled processors, believe the MMX moniker is Intel's exclusive property. "We plan to vigorously defend our right to use what we believe is a generic industry term," said an AMD representative. "We do not believe Intel's attempt to trademark the term is supportable." This is a minor skirmish that does not involve technology, just a term, the representative said. "We have intellectual property rights to all x86 instructions through a cross-licensing agreement with Intel," the representative noted. Cyrix officials said Friday that they had not yet been notified of the lawsuit and declined further comment.
mikroprocesori.285 nenad,
Intel tužba nije omela AMD-a i Cyrix da najave nove procesore. AMD po prvi put prestiže Intel i K6 će već u startu raditi na 233MHz. Intelov Pentium II će raditi i na više, ali će se na tržištu pojaviti mesec dana kasnije. AMD, Cyrix prepare to assault the hot MMX market Advanced Micro Devices and Cyrix are set to give Intel a run for its money, as all three chip vendors prepare to launch their next-generation MMX-enhanced processors during the second quarter. While AMD is angling to take on Intel at the high end, Cyrix will focus on the entry-level and midrange PC segments, officials said during the CeBit trade show here this week. Intel, meanwhile, last Friday took a first shot at its competitors with the announcement that it has filed a lawsuit accusing AMD and Cyrix of infringing its MMX trademark. The suit, however, will not delay the release of K6, which will be launched on April 2, AMD officials said. The initial iterations of the K6 series are expected to run at clock speeds ranging from 166 MHz to 233 MHz, with a 266-MHz version to follow later this year, sources said. The timing comes none too soon, as computers based on Intel's MMX chip quickly seized 27 percent of U.S. retail desktop PC sales in January, according to new research. In the retail channels tracked by the StoreBoard service of market researcher Computer Intelligence, MMX-based machines made up the largest category of desktop PCs purchased in consumer electronics superstores, where they accounted for nearly two out of every five desktop machines sold in January. In anticipation of such burgeoning sales, AMD is positioning the MMX-compatible K6 as a viable competitor to Intel's Pentium II, which is expected to be announced in May and to initially run at clock speeds of 233 MHz and 266 MHz. In fact, AMD is so committed to taking on Intel at the high end of the market that it will halt any future investment in its Pentium-class K5 series, said Dana Krelle, director of marketing in AMD's computation products group. Cyrix, not to be outdone, will start limited volume shipments of its next-generation chip -- code-named M2 -- in June, said Lew Paceley, Cyrix's vice president of marketing. This could give AMD a short window for boasting the fastest x86 chip on the market, although Intel reportedly is already shipping samples of a 300-MHz Pentium II to selected customers, industry observers said. In addition, both the K6 and M2 chips will fit into the same Socket 7 that houses today's Pentium chips, while Intel's Pentium II will require a new motherboard architecture featuring the new Slot 1 processor card interface. Consequently, major PC vendors are paying close attention to the AMD and Cyrix offerings. Intel should expect PC makers to give these MMX-oriented clone chips a close look, observers said. AMD and Cyrix make pretty good chips, said David Winn, general manager of IBM's PC division for Europe, Middle East, and Africa, and IBM is looking at their offerings with an open mind. "[AMD's] K6 looks like a burner," said Winn, who is based in Paris. IBM, however, currently has no product plans in place for the AMD and Cyrix processors, Winn added, and the company now has a closer alliance with Intel than it had in the past. This issue of Intel's influence over PC vendors could well be the largest obstacle facing both AMD and Cyrix in their battles for more market share. Intel's dominant position in the x86 processor business often makes PC vendors think twice about using chips from alternative suppliers, industry insiders said. Market-leading PC maker Compaq, for example, has made a last-minute decision to wait on deploying PCs powered by AMD's K6 chips, sources close to the companies said. "[Compaq] needs Intel for the server business, and decided that being one of AMD's first K6 customers is not worth risking the wrath of Intel," one source said. Compaq is currently the world's largest PC vendor, and also tops the PC server rankings, according to leading market researchers such as Dataquest and International Data Corp. AMD officials last week remained tight-lipped about prospective customers, but Krelle said that at least one top ten PC vendor would be among its first K6 customers. Speculation over who that vendor might be was rife at the CeBit show, with names such as Compaq, IBM, Hewlett-Packard, and Taiwan's Acer Group all circulating through the rumor mill. In an interview, Acer's Chairman and CEO Stan Shih did not exclude the possibility. "We are trying to meet the market requirements -- no matter which product or component," Shih said. "So we are making ourselves flexible." The battle for a larger piece of Intel pie is certain to continue. Cyrix last week released a few details about its forthcoming M2 offering. The M2 will be MMX-compatible, include 64KB of on-chip cache, and feature enhanced memory management, Paceley said. Performance will be as much as twice that of the company's current high-end offering, the 6x86, when running 32-bit applications. Paceley also claimed that Cyrix's internal benchmarks tests show that a 166-MHz M2 is faster than a 200-MHz Intel Pentium Pro chip. The M2 will reach clock-speeds as high as 233 MHz before year's end, he added. At the entry level, Cyrix is promoting its recently released MediaGX processor as a sub-$100 alternative for PC makers targeting the lower end of the PC market, officials said. Compaq last month became Cyrix's first customer of the MediaGX when it launched the $999 Presario 2100, which is powered by a 133-MHz version of the chip. However, Cyrix is also readying a faster, MMX-enhanced 200-MHz version of the chip, code-named GXm, which it plans to introduce before year's end, Paceley said.
mikroprocesori.286 vsgdoo,
Hi! Interesuje me da li neko ima iskustva (da li je pokusavao da pokrene) procesor AMD 486 Dx4 120 mhz (on kaze da je to dx4 ali u stvari mnozi magistralu od 40 mhz tri puta) na nekim jacim brzinama ??? Na startu on se indentifikuje kao Am486DX4plusB. Da li cu tim overclockovanjem dobiti ista ? Ako neko ima neki dobar benchmark programcic mogao bi da mi posalje u slucaju da se odlucim na bilo sta :) Hvala u napred... Pozdrav vsgdoo
mikroprocesori.287 swix, -> #286, vsgdoo
> Interesuje me da li neko ima iskustva (da li je > pokusavao da pokrene) procesor AMD 486 Dx4 120 mhz (on kaze da je to > dx4 ali u stvari mnozi magistralu od 40 mhz tri puta) na nekim jacim > brzinama ??? Na startu on se indentifikuje kao Am486DX4plusB. > Da li cu tim overclockovanjem dobiti ista ? Mozes da probas da ga bacis na 150, ali to readi u 30-50 % slucajeva (znam iz iskustva) Sto se tice programcica nemam nijedan shareware :) tako da .... Pozdrav!
mikroprocesori.288 dr.grba, -> #286, vsgdoo
>> Da li cu tim overclockovanjem dobiti ista ? Dobićeš povišenu temperaturu u kućištu računara, to je sigurno. NHF, please.
mikroprocesori.289 nenad,
Intel je predstavio svoj Pentium II procesor, dao snažnu podršku OpenGL-u što se donekle kosi sa MS-ovim planovima sa Direct3D-om, ali je po prvi put demonstrirao i AGP - Accelerated Graphics Port, tehnologiju koja treba da omogući mnogo brže video karte na Inetel-ovoj platformi od današnjih, tako što (skoro) potpuno zaobilazi PCI magistralu i omogućava procesoru direktan pristup grafičkom podsistemu. Intel sets the stage for a new era of graphics on PCs Intel at its Platforms for Visual Computing conference here Monday unveiled major initiatives to drive workstation-level 3-D graphics performance into Intel-architecture PCs with demonstrations of its Pentium II processor, a deeper commitment to the OpenGL API, the first demonstrations of Accelerated Graphics Port (AGP) hardware, and details of a new division founded to help OEMs bring Intel-based workstations to market. "We are looking to improve quality and level of interactivity on the Intel platform by a factor of ten in the next three years," said Craig Barrett, chief operating officer at Intel. The company said it is developing next-generation technology for its AGP technology to more tightly link the graphics controller to the chip set in the system to ship in 2000, and will increase bandwidth of that port by two to four times over the next several years. Strategic partner Microsoft said it will support the AGP technology in release 5.0 of its Windows NT operating system expected later this year and will "leverage" AGP memory in its Direct X APIs. "The transition [from 2-D] to 3D, like text to graphics and monochrome to color before it, is under way," said Andy Fischer, a senior analyst at Jon Peddie Associates, in Tiburon, Calif. "The hardware arrives first, letting developers explore ways for mainstream applications to exploit it." With the formal introduction of the Pentium II (formerly Klamath) still weeks away, Intel will allow vendors to show off their graphics hardware on early-production CPUs and AGP interface chips. New graphics chips, for example, require Pentium II performance and AGP, which is only available from Intel on the Pentium II platform, explained one vendor. The company is also spurring the development of synchronous DRAM and RAM bus, which promise 500Mbps and greater than 2Gbps of data throughput in the coming years. Barrett promised that the graphics technologies currently being developed will find its way downstream to desktop PCs, bringing better graphics to low-cost computers. Unfortunately, vendors will not be able to show their wares to the best advantage, because the Pentium II systems have problems with both the processors and the AGP interfaces, the vendor said. "They're dogs at the moment." The vendor pointed out, though, that Intel should have these problems solved by the time devices ship in volume. "They still have time to work it out," the vendor said. Meanwhile, Intel will be working on OpenGL technology licensed from Silicon Graphics Inc. (SGI). Intel has expanded its interest in OpenGL from a Level 2 licensee, which gives them access to sample source code, to Level 3, which will allow Intel to redistribute OpenGL source code to its customers, who can optimize the code for their hardware configurations, explained John Schimpf, OpenGL product manager at SGI. SGI will also be naming other firms that have signed on as Level 3 OpenGL licensees. These include graphics chip vendors 3Dfx and Rendition; graphics card suppliers Number Nine Visual Technologies, Elsa, and AccelGraphics; computer OEMs such as Compaq; and software driver house InterDimension. Use of Open GL on Intel-architecture platforms will bring with it a wide array of graphics software, helping to accelerate the flow of technology from workstations to personal computers, noted Schimpf. Also focusing on the flow of technologies between volume PCs and workstations is a new Intel division, based in Dupont, Wash. Intel expects this focus to drive the platform and product advances necessary to support visual computing applications, which will be the theme of the Platforms for Visual Computing conference, in San Jose, Calif. At the conference, chip vendors will show their latest AGP-enabled 3-D graphics accelerators. ATI Technologies will show off its 133-MHz 3D Rage Pro, Cirrus will demonstrate its Laguna3D-AGP, S3 will launch the Virge/GX2 3-D accelerator with television output, Trident will unveil an AGP version of the 3DImage 975, and 3Dlabs will introduce the high-end Glint Gamma 3-D accelerator.
mikroprocesori.290 zoran.r,
AMD je izbacio na tržište svoj procesor K6 sa MMX instrukcijama!!! 8.8miliona tranzistora, 0.35-mikronska tehnologija, radni takt 233,200 i 166MHz. Detaljnije u narednim porukama... SUNNYVALE, CA--APRIL 2, 1997--AMD today announced it has begun shipments of its sixth-generation AMD-K6TM MMX processor, the personal computer industry's highest performance Microsoft« Windows« compatible x86 microprocessor. "With today's announcement AMD has changed the competitive landscape of the PC industry," said W.J. Sanders III, chairman and chief executive officer of AMD. "Today marks the return of competition in Windows compatible processors. We have already shipped thousands of units and are ramping production in order to ship hundreds of thousands of AMD-K6 devices this quarter and millions more during the balance of the year," said Sanders. Equipped with x86 instruction set multimedia extensions (MMX), the AMD-K6 processor is the fastest x86 processor for desktop computers. This processor brings sixth-generation performance and MMX capability using the optimum performance provided by the existing, low-cost Socket 7 infrastructure. The Superior Engine for Windows Computing Based on tests using the industry-standard Ziff-Davis Winstone 97 benchmark, the AMD-K6 processor provides the best Windows-based performance of any PC processor. This performance stems from AMD's advanced, six-issue RISC86« superscalar microarchitecture. Winstone 97 tests show that a system based on the highest performance AMD-K6 processor delivers superior performance to a comparably configured system based on the fastest available Pentium Pro processor when running either the Windows NTTM or Windows« 95 operating system. AMD-K6 family members introduced today include products at clock frequencies of 233, 200 and 166 MHz. "The AMD-K6 processor is smaller, faster, easier to use, more energy efficient and less expensive than Pentium Pro, making it the superior engine for Windows computing," said Sanders. "It will enable systems manufacturers and resellers to deliver differentiated, high-performance, MMX-capable desktop systems at affordable prices and expand the market. Competition is good. ----------------------------------
mikroprocesori.291 zoran.r,
AMD...(2) "The AMD-K6 processor is smaller, faster, easier to use, more energy efficient and less expensive than Pentium Pro, making it the superior engine for Windows computing," said Sanders. "It will enable systems manufacturers and resellers to deliver differentiated, high-performance, MMX-capable desktop systems at affordable prices and expand the market. Competition is good." Socket 7 Compatibility for the Optimum Desktop Solution More than any other available sixth-generation processor, the AMD-K6 processor is designed to enhance the affordability of high-performance, MMX-capable personal computers. It was designed to be compatible with the Socket 7 environment because Socket 7 is the industry's optimum-performance desktop PC design platform. Socket 7 also is the industry's most cost-effective and widely used PC infrastructure (motherboards, chipsets, and BIOS). More than 80 percent of the approximately 75 million desktop personal computers expected to ship in 1997 will employ the Socket 7 infrastructure. By working within the robust Socket 7 environment, PC manufacturers and resellers can leverage today's existing, high-volume, low-cost system designs. Because Socket 7 is a proven infrastructure, manufacturers benefit by using the high-performance AMD-K6 processor without the increased research and development costs associated with a new platform. This speeds time to market and provides for more affordable high-performance systems. Socket 7 compatibility will also enable an easier, more cost-effective upgrade path to future high-performance members family. "New platforms from our principal competitor require systems manufacturers to use new motherboard designs that increase their cost structure, allow no flexibility for differentiation, and ultimately provide no new benefit to end users," said Sanders. AMD is working closely with third-party suppliers to ensure a Socket 7 infrastructure that supports the AMD-K6 processor and successor AMD processors with a wide range of optimized, feature-rich and affordable solutions. Chipset products for the AMD-K6 are available from key members of AMD's FusionPCsm program, including Acer Labs, ITE, National Semiconductor, OPTi, SiS and VIA. BIOS support is provided by leading third-party suppliers, including American Megatrends, Inc., Award Software, and Phoenix. To augment third-party solutions, AMD recently introduced a highly integrated chipset solution, the AMD-640TM Chipset, which delivers high performance for Socket 7-compatible processors.
mikroprocesori.292 zoran.r,
AMD...(3) C E N E Pricing and Availability The AMD-K6 MMX processor is available now. The AMD-K6-233 processor is priced at $469; the AMD-K6-200 at $349; and the AMD-K6-166 at $244, each in 1,000-unit quantities. "With the AMD-K6 processor, systems manufacturers can have it all -- highest performance and lowest price," Sanders concluded.
mikroprocesori.293 zoran.r,
AMD...(4) Window Compatible by Design AMD, the world's second largest supplier of Windows compatible processors, has supplied nearly one hundred million x86 processors, including 50 million Windows compatible CPUs in the last five years. The AMD-K6 processor, like previous AMD PC processors, is licensed by Microsoft to carry the Designed for Microsoft Windows 95 logo. The processor executes all leading operating systems, including the Windows 95, Windows NT, Windows 3.x, MS-DOS, Novell« NetWare«, OS/2 Warp, Unix, Solaris, and Vines operating systems, as well as 60,000 other software packages and the latest MMX-enabled multimedia applications.
mikroprocesori.294 n.ceh, -> #290, zoran.r
Zo> using the optimum performance provided by the existing, low-cost Socket Zo> 7 infrastructure. Pročitao sam ceo text, i još uvek mi nije jasno koja je to Socket 7 infrastruktura. Ima li ovde nekog ko može da mi to malo pojasni? Čeh
mikroprocesori.295 nenad, -> #294, n.ceh
> Zo> using the optimum performance provided by the existing, low-cost > Socket Zo> 7 infrastructure. > Pročitao sam ceo text, i još uvek mi nije jasno koja je to Socket 7 > infrastruktura. Ima li ovde nekog ko može da mi to malo pojasni? Socket 7 je naziv onog standardnog "ležišta" za Pentium procesore. AMD-ov čip iako u klasi P6 se "umeće" u njega, dakle za razliku od Pentium Pro-a i II ne zahteva nova kućišta, nove ploče i sl. Pod "Socket 7 infrastrutkurom" verovatno se podrazumeva veliki broj takvih ploča, čipsetova, proizvođača..
mikroprocesori.296 zoran.r,
JoÜ malo o novom AMD K6 procesoru...(1) -------------------------------------- AMD K6 Arrives (4/2/97) -- Starting today, the Pentium Pro has a peer. The AMD-K6/PR-233, announced today, is $56 cheaper per part (in 1,000 unit quantities) than Intel's sixth generation CPU, yet offers comparable performance.This 233-MHz chip and its two siblings--the K6/PR-166 and the K6/PR-200--plug into the same socket as the Classic Pentium and are fully compatible with the x86 instruction set. The AMD-K6 began life as a NexGen processor known as the Nx686. When AMD purchased its California-based competitor in the spring of last year, the chip was re-named, but its development team remained intact. While AMD engineers in Austin, Texas, completed the K5 and leapfrogged to a K7 project, erstwhile NexGen employees in San Jose continued work on their sixth-generation design. Inside the Chip A year later, AMD has announced a processor capable of competing with Intel's leading architectures. Manufactured on a 0.35-micron five-layer-metal process, the K6 is almost twenty percent smaller (162mm2 to 196mm2) than a Pentium Pro yet contains 3.3 million more transistors (8.8 million to 5.5 million). Most of these additional transistors reside in the chip's primary cache, which --at 64K--is larger than that of any other x86 processor. Like the Pentium Pro, the K6 owes a great deal to classic RISC designs. Using AMD's RISC86 superscaler microarchitecture, the chip decodes each x86 instruction into a series of simpler operations that can then be processed using typical RISC principles--such as out-of-order execution, register renaming, branch prediction, data forwarding, and speculative execution. AMD has also included support for Intel's MMX Technology, which includes 57 new x86 instructions designed to enhance and accelerate multimedia software. In January, Intel filed suit against both AMD and Cyrix Corp. over use the MMX moniker, but the case has yet to be ruled upon. Cost-Cutting Strategy Despite its sixth-generation internal architecture, the K6 does not use sixth-generation packaging: Its pinout matches that of a classic Pentium. As Intel readies its Pentium II processor and the so-called Slot 1 architecture, AMD is resting its hopes on the venerable Socket 7. The company intends to leverage the market's widespread Pentium-based infrastructure--which has yet to be supplanted by the Pentium Pro platform--and thus keep K6 system prices to a minimum. Not only can manufacturers reduce costs by using existing chipsets and motherboards (ATX, LPX, or Baby AT), but the processor itself is relatively inexpensive. While a 200-MHz Pentium Pro chip with 256K of onboard secondary cache sells for $525 (in quantities of 1,000), AMD has priced the 233-MHz K6 at $469. Even if the cost of an L2 cache (roughly $20) is considered, the K6 still provides more performance per dollar. Priced at $244 and $349 respectively, the 166- and 200-MHlative bargains as well. The Bottom Line AMD is naming each version of the K6 to reflect its performance (based on AMD's in-house testing) relative to the Pentium Pro. In other words, the K6/PR2-200 ostensibly compares favorably to the Pentium Pro/200 while the K6/PR2-233 would match the performance of a 233-MHz Pentium Pro (were one in existence). Coincidentally, the first K6 chips have PR2 ratings that match their clock speeds. Based on our testing of a K6 reference machine, however, we would conclude that the performance of a 233-MHz K6 is essentially on a par with that of the 200-MHz Pentium Pro. Its Winstone score is higher than the average Pentium Pro's score, but these scores are greatly affected by the K6 reference machine's disk subsystem, which was significantly beefier than any of the Pentium Pro systems we tested.--Cade Metz
mikroprocesori.297 zoran.r,
JoÜ malo o novom AMD K6 procesoru...(2) -------------------------------------- AMD has reduced the fabrication costs of its K6 processor by adopting IBM Microelectronics' C4 flip-chip interconnection technology. Prior to packaging, the underside of the K6 die bears a scattering of small solder bumps, each of which abuts an I/O circuit. According to the C4 process, the die is flipped over onto a ceramic package, where the solder bumps meet a matching set of metallurgical pads. The resulting article is then placed in a furnace and baked, so that the solder pads and forms a series of reliable electrical connections. With the typical silicon die, diminutive wires rather than solder bumps are used for I/O. While these wires are relegated to a die's perimeter, C4 solder bumps can reside anywhere on a die's underbelly. Thus, the C4 process results in a smaller die size and lower fabrication costs. Ostensibly, it also improves electrical performance by shortening the distance from die to package. Once the die is married to its 321-pin ceramic pin grid array (CPGA) package, a heat spreader is placed directly on top of the die. PC manufacturers can then attach a typical processor fan or heat sink to the spreader. The K6 is rather cool relative to its sixth-generation competition. Using a dual voltage design Ó la the MMX Pentium, it interfaces at 3.3 volts while its core runs at 2.9 volts. This keeps heat dissipation down to about 15 watts--well below that of a Pentium Pro.
mikroprocesori.298 zoran.r,
JoÜ malo o novom AMD K6 procesoru...(3) -------------------------------------- With the K6 offering Pentium Pro-level performance, AMD hopes to eventually control twenty to thirty percent of the single-user PC market. The path to such a goal is beset by two major obstacles: the Pentium II and the reluctance of leading PC vendors to use non-Intel chips. The Pentium II will likely debut at 266-MHz by the end of the second quarter and should outperform the K6. Though this MMX-enabled version of the Pentium Pro will probably carry a higher price tag than AMD's chip, it marks the arrival of Slot 1--a motherboard architecture that will likely be used with each new Intel processor from now to the millennium. Both the Pentium II and its secondary cache will reside on a small card encased in plastic and metal. This SEC cartridge will have an edge connector that fits neatly into Slot 1. Upgrading to a forthcoming Intel chip--such as Deschutes in 1998 or Willamette in 1999--may be as easy pulling out one SEC cartridge and sliding in another. With the recent introduction of the MMX Pentium, however, Socket 7 is far from extinct. If the K6 can supply Pentium II-level performance from a cheaper platform, end users may postpone their leap to Slot 1. Of course, AMD must reach vendors before reaching end users. Though companies such as CyberMax and Direct Wave will be offering K6 systems in April, none of the leading PC sellers--as of press time--have agreed to use the chip. Intel's Ire It's unlikely that one of the market's top five vendors will adopt the K6 regardless of how it compares to the Pentium II. In adopting the K6, a company must deal not only with AMD's lack of name recognition but also the ire of Intel. Yet AMD is prepared for a breakthrough. The company now has their own chip factory in Austin, Texas and is building a second in Dresden, Germany. A 266-MHz version of the K6 will debut by the fourth quarter, and a 300-MHz should follow in early 1998. Subsequently, AMD will continue to reduce die sizes and increase clock speeds by moving to a 0.25-micron manufacturing process in 1998 and a 0.18-micron process in 1999.--Cade Metz
mikroprocesori.299 zoran.r,
JoÜ malo o novom AMD K6 procesoru...(4) -------------------------------------- PC Labs Tests K6--Outperforming the Pentium Though the AMD-K6/PR-233 is just now reaching the PC market, PC Magazine Labs has tested one of the first K6 reference systems. Unfortunately, the system that AMD sent us is not entirely conducive to comparisons with today's mainstream corporate machines. The company has stacked the deck by including a 512K L2 cache upgrade card--giving the machine a 1MB L2 cache--and a DTP Ultra Wide SCSI controller with 32MB of EDO RAM cache. The system's chipset carries the VIA name, but was developed by engineers at AMD. The AMD-640--which will likely be licensed to Opti, ALI, SIS, and ITE as well--is optimized for use with the K6 but can be used with any Socket 7 processor. Like Intel's nascent 430TX, it uses a two-chip design and offers support for Concurrent PCI, UltraDMA, and USB. By the second half of the year, AMD plans to ship a version that supports Intel's Accelerated Graphics Port, which gives graphics chips dedicated access to main memory. The system also arrived at PC Labs with a Matrox Millennium graphics card (4MB of WRAM), a Seagate Cheetah Ultra Wide SCSI hard disk, and 64MB of SDRAM. During testing, however, we used only 32MB of system memory--as we did with machines in our first MMX Pentium review ("MMX Extends the Desktop," February 4, 1997) and our latest 200-MHz Pentium Pro roundup ("Corporate Voices," December 3, 1997). Performance Comparison Under Windows 95, (at a resolution of 1,024-by-768 with 16-bit color), the K6 system we received significantly outperformed the 12 systems in our MMX Pentium roundup. Its Business Winstone 97 score--which represents overall system performance--was 27 percent higher than that of the average MMX Pentium PC, and 16 percent higher than that of the two leading machines, the Digital Celebris FX 5200M and the Quantex QP5/200 SM-3. Though both these systems lacked caching controllers and contained only 512K of L2 cache apiece, both used a Millennium card with 4MB of WRAM. The Quantex was equipped with a Seagate Barracuda Ultra SCSI hard disk, while the Digital used a much slower Quantum Fireball Fast ATA-2 disk. The K6 was just as proficient when running our CPUmark32 test under Windows 95. (This test measures the raw speed of a machine's processor subsystem.) In this case, its score was 41 percent greater than the average MMX Pentium score and 32 percent greater than the highest MMX Pentium result. A comparison between the K6 prototype and the 40 machines in our Pentium Pro roundup is not quite as conclusive. Under Windows NT, the K6's Winstone score of 66 was unmatched. With a score of 61, the leading Pentium Pro performer during Winstone testing was the Zenon Optima Pro Server--which included 256K of on-board L2 cache, a CMD SCSI adapter with 16MB of cache, a Seagate Barracuda Fast/Wide SCSI-2 hard disk, and an ATI 3D Xpression Pro Turbo PC2TV graphics card. The success ofer Winstone, however, is primarily the result of their caching controllers. As is evidenced by their CPUmark32 scores, the true processing speed of these systems is merely average. During CPUmark32 testing, the 32MB hard disk cache on the K6 machine becomes irrelevant. The system's only advantage is its stout secondary cache, which is four times larger those in our Pentium Pro roundup. Of course, the Pentium Pro's on-board L2 cache runs at the same clock speed as the CPU (200 MHz), while the K6's L2 cache runs at the speed of the system bus (66 MHz). Thus, the advantage is not as great as it would seem. A typical K6 machine will likely have a 512K of L2 and l on its CPUmark32 score. Regardless, the performance of the 233MHz K6 is at best on a par with that of the 200MHz Pentium Pro. Though this puts the K6 at the top of the market--at least for the time being--it does not quite match the claims of AMD.--Cade Metz
mikroprocesori.300 nenad,
Intel obećava da će njihov prvi 64-bitni procesor (Merced) biti 15 puta brži od današnjih! Istovremeno, obećavaju da će i dalje zadržati vertikalnu kompatibilnost "na dole" sa svojim prethodnicima. Inače, čip je prethnodno najavljen za '98., ali je pre neki mesec rečeno da su male šanse da se pojavi pre 1999. godine. Intel's 64-bit Merced processor to offer huge power boost The Intel-Architecture 64-bit (IA-64) Merced processor will offer as much as 15 times the performance of current processors while maintaining compatibility with existing code, said executives from co-developer Hewlett-Packard this week. Although RISC processors from HP competitors will improve at a 50-percent annual rate, HP expects a 500-percent to 1500-percent improvement in performance from IA-64, said Richard Sevcik, an HP vice president and general manager of the company's systems technology group. He also promises that making the IA-64 binary compatible with Intel's current IA-32 processors and HP's existing PA-RISC chips will ease the transition to the more powerful CPU by allowing developers and end-users to maintain existing programs and data. Converting system designs to the IA-64 will demand a change in hardware such as that of the switch from Pentium Pro to Pentium II, said Peter Glaskowsky, a senior analyst at MicroDesign Resources, in Sunnyvale, Calif. Today, designers are struggling with the conversion from the Pentium Pro socket to the Pentium II slot, Glaskowsky noted. The Slot 1 architecture eases the transition between devices in the same generation but cannot be maintained with the wider bus architecture of the IA-64, he said. "I don't expect the same slot will survive the transition to IA-64," Glaskowsky said. As with the last several generational changes, the switch to IA-64 will require new protocols, Glaskowsky said. It may offer features such as a direct interface from the processor to main memory, he said. IA-64 Merced systems will scale to 256-way symmetric multiprocessors. IA-64 development will continue in parallel with PA-RISC development, HP's Sevcik said. Intel, too, will parallel IA-64 development with new IA-32 chips, said Pat Gelsinger, vice president and general manager of Intel's desktop products group. At WinHEC '97 in San Francisco this week, Gelsinger said the IA-32 Pentium II will be "announced and shipping in volume beginning next month." Following the Pentium II are other 32-bit processors, then the IA-64, he said. "We have multiple generations of 32-bit processors in development," Gelsinger said. "We see no end to 32-bit processors." Andrew Grove, Intel chief executive and president, this week described the Pentium II Dual Independent Bus architecture, which increases the transfer of data between the processor and memory.
mikroprocesori.301 nenad,
Intel definitivno ima potrebu da najavljuje i stvari koje će se desiti za 2 godine, AMD i Cyrix se ne šale. Cyrix je predstavio svoje Penitum II kompatabilne procesore, trenutno na 233MHz, do kraja godina uz pomoć IBM-a na 266MHz, a početkom sledeće i na celih 300MHz! Cyrix shows off its answer the Pentium II at WinHEC Intel Wednesday faced the second competitor for its Pentium II processor as Cyrix unveiled its M2 processor in working systems at the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference (WinHEC) here. Cyrix had 233-MHz M2 Pentium II-compatible systems on display running MMX-enhanced software. Cyrix reached an agreement with Intel over a recent dispute surrounding the use of the MMX trademark, noted Steve Tobak, vice president of marketing at Cyrix. Cyrix this quarter will introduce 166-, 200-, and 233-MHz versions of the M2, Tobak said. Using a new manufacturing process at IBM Microelectronics, Cyrix's foundry, the company will offer a 266-MHz chip later this year. Early in 1998, Cyrix will move to a 0.25 micron process, which will lead to a 300-MHz version of the M2, Tobak said. It will also cut the power consumption of the part, he noted. The M2 already has low enough power consumption for mobile applications, Tobak said. Although Cyrix is focusing on desktop applications for the M2, "It makes an ideal notebook product," he noted. When resources permit Cyrix to address notebook applications, the company will be ready, Tobak said. The company will be able to give OEMs design information for mobile applications because "we're always characterizing for notebooks," he said.
mikroprocesori.302 kostja, -> #296, zoran.r
=> (4/2/97) -- Starting today, the Pentium Pro has a peer. The AMD-K6/PR-233, => announced today, is $56 cheaper per part (in 1,000 unit quantities) than => Intel's sixth generation CPU, yet offers comparable performance.This => 233-MHz chip and its two siblings--the K6/PR-166 and the K6/PR-200--plug Da nisu napravili gresku? Lepo stoji K6/PR-233, dakle nece biti: "This 233MHz chip..." vec bi trebalo 200MHz koliko mi se cini (ili manje).
mikroprocesori.303 kostja, -> #300, nenad
=> Intel obecava da ce njihov prvi 64-bitni procesor (Merced) biti => 15 puta brzi od danasnjih! Istovremeno, obecavaju da ce i dalje => zadrzati vertikalnu kompatibilnost "na dole" sa svojim => prethodnicima. Inace, cip je prethnodno najavljen za '98., ali je Sve u svemu, bice 5 puta brzi i pojavice se 2000 godine.
mikroprocesori.304 kostja, -> #301, nenad
=> Cyrix had 233-MHz M2 Pentium II-compatible systems on display => running MMX-enhanced software. Cyrix reached an agreement with Dobro, jel neko zna sta je u pitanju ovde? Jel AMD i Cyrix imaju cipove na 233 ili je opet u pitanju P rejting koji se proglasava za radni takt.
mikroprocesori.305 zoran.r, -> #302, kostja
=> Da nisu napravili gresku? => Lepo stoji K6/PR-233, dakle nece biti: "This 233MHz chip..." => vec bi trebalo 200MHz koliko mi se cini (ili manje). Nije greška. K6 MMX procesori rade na 233,200 i 166 MHz. PR oznaka ga poredi sa odgovarajućim Intelovim procesorom, dakle numerisanje je ovoga puta različito od K5 generacije procesora.
mikroprocesori.306 ivanl, -> #304, kostja
=> Cyrix had 233-MHz M2 Pentium II-compatible systems on display => running MMX-enhanced software. Cyrix reached an agreement with Ko> Dobro, jel neko zna sta je u pitanju ovde? Ko> Jel AMD i Cyrix imaju cipove na 233 ili je opet u Ko> pitanju P rejting koji se proglasava za radni takt. P rejting.
mikroprocesori.307 ranx, -> #300, nenad
> Intel's 64-bit Merced processor to offer huge power boost Odakle im ime? Da nije od Mercedes?
mikroprocesori.308 alec, -> #301, nenad
> desiti za 2 godine, AMD i Cyrix se ne sale. Cyrix je predstavio > svoje Penitum II kompatabilne procesore, trenutno na 233MHz, do A jel sredio Cyrix FPU u tim novim procesorima ;)
mikroprocesori.309 gmatic, -> #303, kostja
==> Sve u svemu, bice 5 puta brzi i pojavice se 2000 godine. 5X!!!!!!!!!!! Pa neverujem.Ako bude 2X bice dobro.
mikroprocesori.310 nenad, -> #308, alec
> A jel sredio Cyrix FPU u tim novim procesorima ;) Koliko znam njegov FPU je bio sasvim pristojan za frekvenciju na kojoj radi. Zbog toga sam ih uvek poredio sa Intel-om na istom taktu, pa ako je cena tu negde - Cyrix je rešenje jer je prilično brži.