mikroprocesori.311dr.grba,
-> #307, ranx>>> Intel's 64-bit Merced processor to offer huge power boost
>>
>> Odakle im ime? Da nije od Mercedes?
Merced je ime grada u Kaliforniji. Valjda su se navukli na onaj
Microsoftov princip davanja imena projektima u razvoju.
mikroprocesori.312alec,
-> #310, nenad> Koliko znam njegov FPU je bio sasvim pristojan za frekvenciju
> na kojoj radi. Zbog toga sam ih uvek poredio sa Intel-om na
> istom taktu, pa ako je cena tu negde - Cyrix je resenje jer je
> prilicno brzi.
Pa ako uzmes da poredis FPU Pentium-a na 133MHz i Cyrix-a P166+
(koji radi na 133MHz) izmenices misljenje.
mikroprocesori.313orlic,
-> #302, kostja
=> (4/2/97) -- Starting today, the Pentium Pro has a peer. The AMD-K6/PR-233,
=> announced today, is $56 cheaper per part (in 1,000 unit quantities) than
=> Intel's sixth generation CPU, yet offers comparable performance.This
=> 233-MHz chip and its two siblings--the K6/PR-166 and the K6/PR-200--plug
Ko> Da nisu napravili gresku?
Ko> Lepo stoji K6/PR-233, dakle nece biti: "This 233MHz chip..."
Ko> vec bi trebalo 200MHz koliko mi se cini (ili manje).
U tekstu lepo pise da 'sasvim slucajno' ovi procesori rade na istim
frekvencijama na koje upucuje PR oznaka.
mikroprocesori.314kostja,
-> #305, zoran.r=> Nije greska. K6 MMX procesori rade na 233,200 i 166 MHz. PR oznaka ga
=> poredi sa odgovarajucim Intelovim procesorom, dakle numerisanje je ovoga
=> puta razlicito od K5 generacije procesora.
U tom slucaju ce biti interesantno poredjenje
ova dva sporija sa Pentium 166 & 200 procesorima.
mikroprocesori.315kostja,
-> #313, orlic=> U tekstu lepo pise da 'sasvim slucajno' ovi procesori rade na istim
=> frekvencijama na koje upucuje PR oznaka.
Da, zbog toga sam i pitao da nije greska.
Do sada nije bilo jednakosti izmedju PR i
MHz kod AMD procesora.
U upustvu za moju GA586HX stoji:
- AMD K5 100MHz-P133
- AMD K5 120MHz-P150
- AMD K5 133MHz-P166
zato je i normalno pitanje da li novi K6
ima slican odnos MHz i PR brojki.
mikroprocesori.316kostja,
-> #309, gmatic=> 5X!!!!!!!!!!!
=> Pa neverujem.Ako bude 2X bice dobro.
Ma, sve je to diskutabilno....
Kako se racuna ubrzanje? Da li se racuna odnos
izmedju svakog stepena ili konkretnih generacija?
Sta uzeti kao referencu? Odnos 286 - 386 - 486 ili
286 - 386SX - 386DX - 486SX - 486DX?
I kako porediti? Najbrzi iz prethodne generacije sa
pocetnim iz sledece ili na istom taktu?
mikroprocesori.317kostja,
-> #306, ivanl=> Ko> Jel AMD i Cyrix imaju cipove na 233 ili je opet u
=> Ko> pitanju P rejting koji se proglasava za radni takt.
=>
=> P rejting.
I meni na to lici, ali neki tvrde drugacije...
mikroprocesori.318zoran.r,
Novinari na sva usta hvale novi AMD-ov K6 procesor...
AMD-K6(TM) MMX Processor
Here's What They're Saying...
"Let's say it loud and clear. Under Windows 95 the K6 is the fastest CPU
currently available.The K6 233 reaches a Windows 95 performance that's
higher than of a Pentium MMX, still higher than of an overclocked Pentium
MMX 225, higher than of a PPro 200 and equal to an overclocked PPro 233.
Overclocked to 250 MHz (3x83 MHz) and 262.5 MHz (3.5x75 MHz) it's faster
than anything else under Windows 95 and even the upcoming Pentium II will
have its problems with it."
--Dr. Thomas Pabst - Tom's Hardware Guide
"In 16-bit benchmarks, our 233-MHz prototype edged out the fastest Pentium
Pro system we've tested by about 3 percent. With MMX applications--few and
far between at this point--the K6 should do even better against the Pentium
Pro."--C/net
"In side-by-side comparisons, it [the AMD-K6 processor] equaled and even
bested equivalent Intel machines on our Winstone benchmark. What's more,
the K6 is equipped from day one with MMX... Even better, the K6 exhibits
none of the Pentium Pro's lackadaisical behavior running 16-bit code..."
--Bill Machrone, PC Week.
"It's going to be huge," said Toby Grace, president of Computer 1, a large
seller of PC's and components in Austin. "The K6 is an awesome chip. Intel
is shaking in its boots."
--Austin American Statesman
"...An Exceptionally Strong Comptetitor...."
--Computer World
"AMD's K6 Beats Intel...."
--San Jose Mercury News
"K6 Is World's Fastest x86 Chip"
--Linley Gwennap, Microprocessor Report
"...A serious competitive challenge to Intel..."
--Los Angeles Times
"..There's a ton of money to be saved by going with the K6...."
--Nathan Brookwood, (Dataquest for c/net)
"AMD is poised... to become the most significant alternate to Intel in 1997.
At 8.8 million transistors, AMD's K6 is the most complex of the
next-generation designs... With a compact, high-performance design, lots of
fab capacity, strong sales and support, and multiple design teams, AMD should
be in a strong position."
--Michael Slater, Microprocessor Report
mikroprocesori.319zoran.r,
-> #314, kostja=> => Nije greska. K6 MMX procesori rade na 233,200 i 166 MHz. PR
=> oznaka ga => poredi sa odgovarajucim Intelovim procesorom,
=> dakle numerisanje je ovoga => puta razlicito od K5 generacije
=> procesora.
=> U tom slucaju ce biti interesantno poredjenje
=> ova dva sporija sa Pentium 166 & 200 procesorima.
AMD K6 poredi sa odgovarajućim Pentium Pro procesorima jer su u odnosu na
običan pentium daleko iznad njega, to je ipak sasvim nova generacija
procesora. K6 je zapravo odgovor na najavljeni Intel Pentium Pro MMX koji bi
valjda trebao da nosi naziv Pentium II,a koji će verovatno biti pakleno skup.
Cene AMD su sasvim OK, kao i uvek. Naravno u maju treba očekivati značajniji
pad cena Pentiuma, Cyrix-a M1 i AMd K5 procesora. Ne žurite sa kupovinom...
Naravno i poređenje sa Pentiumom će biti interesantno, kad nabavim rezultate
testova očekujte ih u ovoj konferenciji.
mikroprocesori.320ivanl,
-> #317, kostja => Ko> Jel AMD i Cyrix imaju cipove na 233 ili je opet u
=> Ko> pitanju P rejting koji se proglasava za radni takt.
=> P rejting.
Ko> I meni na to lici, ali neki tvrde drugacije...
Pa u textu je pisalo da im se oznaka daje na osnovu testova
brzine koje oni vrše u svojim laboratorijama.
mikroprocesori.321zormi,
-> #305, zoran.r* Nije greška. K6 MMX procesori rade na 233,200 i 166 MHz. PR oznaka ga
* poredi sa odgovarajućim Intelovim procesorom...
...Pentium Pro da budemo precizni :). Mada, realni testovi pokazuju da
AMD K6/PR233 (koji radi, sasvim slučajno, na 233 MHz) više odgovara
Pentiumu Pro/200.
mikroprocesori.322gmatic,
-> #316, kostja==> Sta uzeti kao referencu? Odnos 286 - 386 - 486 ili
==> 286 - 386SX - 386DX - 486SX - 486DX?
Da sto se toga tice skok po brzini procesora sledece
generacije drasticno opada.
mikroprocesori.323zormi,
-> #318, zoran.r* "AMD is poised... to become the most significant alternate to Intel in
* 1997. At 8.8 million transistors, AMD's K6 is the most complex of the
* next-generation designs...
U opštoj euforiji moram samo da podsetim:
AMD K6 je poslovni a ne tehnološki uspeh AMD-a! Naime, pre par godina su
otkupili NexGen firmu koja je radila na tom procesoru i ostavili su ih
da ga završe bez ikakvih rokada u projektnom timu - što se pokazalo kao
pun pogodak. Razvojno odeljenje samog AMD-a je po završetku K5 prešlo
odmah na projektovanje K7 koje je uveliko u toku.
mikroprocesori.324nenad,
-> #321, zormi> ...Pentium Pro da budemo precizni :). Mada, realni testovi pokazuju da
> AMD K6/PR233 (koji radi, sasvim slučajno, na 233 MHz) više odgovara
> Pentiumu Pro/200.
Ovo postaje prekomplikovano... :( Nekada si i sa klonovima mogao
da budeš siguran - koliko kloka toliko muzike. Od Cyrix-a 486
više ne znaš na čemu si.
Mogao bi neko da napravi uporednu tabelu, odnosno spisak po
"sirovim" performansama pentium i pentium procesora. Bolje sada
dok ih još nema mnogo, posle će biti gadno. :)
mikroprocesori.325kostja,
-> #319, zoran.r=> AMD K6 poredi sa odgovarajucim Pentium Pro procesorima jer su u odnosu na
=> obican pentium daleko iznad njega, to je ipak sasvim nova generacija
=> procesora. K6 je zapravo odgovor na najavljeni Intel Pentium Pro MMX koji
Ma, sve mi je to poznato, ali sam mislio na
poredjenje zarad cene istih procesora.
=> Naravno i poredenje sa Pentiumom ce biti interesantno, kad nabavim
=> rezultate testova ocekujte ih u ovoj konferenciji.
Evo, vec smo poceli da iscekivamo...
mikroprocesori.326kostja,
-> #318, zoran.r=> Novinari na sva usta hvale novi AMD-ov K6 procesor...
=>
=> AMD-K6(TM) MMX Processor
=> Here's What They're Saying...
Sorry, sto ide na ovu tvoju poruku, ali...
Jel neko zna sta zahteva K6?
Koliko vidim oni govore o Socket 7 podnozju.
Sad, to bi trebalo da znaci da ide na klasicne
VX, HX ploce... ali koja je brzina magistrale?
66MHZ (x 3.5) ili nesto drugo?
mikroprocesori.327nenad,
-> #323, zormi> Razvojno odeljenje samog AMD-a je po završetku K5 prešlo
> odmah na projektovanje K7 koje je uveliko u toku.
A šta treba da bude K7?
mikroprocesori.328nenad,
-> #326, kostja> Jel neko zna sta zahteva K6?
>
> Koliko vidim oni govore o Socket 7 podnozju.
> Sad, to bi trebalo da znaci da ide na klasicne
> VX, HX ploce...
Ne, koliko ja znam ploče moraju biti posebne. Činjenica da se
koristi isti "socket" je samo pogodnost za proizvođače, da ne
moraju da "osvajaju" nove tehnologije.
mikroprocesori.329zvlaki,
-> #326, kostja> Jel neko zna sta zahteva K6?
>
> Koliko vidim oni govore o Socket 7 podnozju.
K6 na 166 MHz sa 128 Mb RAM-a sam imao pre tri dana pod rukama.
VEOMA simpatiŔna maÜina sa Mistique video kartom.Drugar kod koga
sam to video ka×e da je po brzini manje-viÜe kao Pentium na 200.
Cena je oko 500 dem(valjda).
Stavlja se u obiŔan socket 7.Magistrala radi na 66 MHz (deljenje 2.5)
Jedan mali detalj koji ja nisam primetio na mikroprocesorima do sada,
je da je gornja strana Ŕipa umesto potpuno ravna,pokrivena metalnom
(boje aluminijuma) ploŔicom koja je u sredini izdignuta a po ivici
ulegnuta.Da nebude zabune,na to se stavlja cooler.InaŔe radi 2.9 volti.
mikroprocesori.330kostja,
-> #328, nenad=> Ne, koliko ja znam ploce moraju biti posebne. Cinjenica da se
=> koristi isti "socket" je samo pogodnost za proizvodace, da ne
=> moraju da "osvajaju" nove tehnologije.
Silna mi tehnologija... jedno podnozje za CPU.
Malce komplikovanije je prilagoditi veze na
stampanoj ploci, ali i to nije nesto posebno.
mikroprocesori.331swix,
-> #329, zvlaki|-> Cena je oko 500 dem(valjda).
Samo procesor ili .... ? Gde?
mikroprocesori.332nenad,
-> #330, kostja> Malce komplikovanije je prilagoditi veze na
> stampanoj ploci, ali i to nije nesto posebno.
Nije nešto posebno sigurno, naročito teorijski razraditi, ali
treba i delove nove nabaviti, promeniti proizvodni proces,
radnike obučiti, drugu štampu raditi... Ovako ima manje izmena.
Radi se pre svega o tome da Intel sa svojim novim Socket-om još
neke elemente koncentriše kod procesora, na kraju će ploču da
svede na slotove, što naravno konkurenciji ne odgovara - a ni
proizvođačima ploča... :)
mikroprocesori.333zvlaki,
-> #328, nenad>> Koliko vidim oni govore o Socket 7 podnozju.
>> Sad, to bi trebalo da znaci da ide na klasicne
>> VX, HX ploce...
>
> Ne, koliko ja znam ploŔe moraju biti posebne. ╚injenica da se
> koristi isti "socket" je samo pogodnost za proizvoaŔe, da ne
> moraju da "osvajaju" nove tehnologije.
K6 (ovaj koji sam ja video na 166) radi na pentium matiŔnim ploŔama
ALI NE NA SVIM!!
mikroprocesori.334nenad,
Iako Intel beleži rekordne prihode u poslednje vreme, velike su
šanse mu posao bude otežan i da pored AMD-a i Cyrix-a vidimo još
jednog proizvođača "klonova". Prema nekim glasinama to bi trebalo
da bude firma iz Silikonske doline - IDT. Oni još ništa ne
potvrđuju, ali "dobro obavešteni izvori" kažu da su pronašli neki
prilično revolucionaran način da proizvedu znatno manji i
jeftiniji čip uz zadržavanje performansi.
Ipak, Intel i dalje drži 90% svetskog tržišta x86 mikroprocesora,
mada svi očekuju da će ova nova inicijativa sa "procesorom na
kartici" omogućiti konkurenciji da zauzme bolje pozicije -
njihovi novi čipovi ne zahtevaju veliki redizajn matičnih ploča.
Intel will have a new challenger
Move over Andy Grove. A Silicon Valley chip maker is about to
challenge mighty Intel on its home turf. It plans on entering the
$19.6 billion X86 market with a low-cost microprocessor tailored
for entry-level PCs.
Industry sources say the chip was designed and will be
manufactured by Integrated Device Technologies, of Santa Clara,
Calif., a maker of embedded RISC processors, specialized memory
and networking chips, which earned $118 million on sales of
$679.5 million in its last fiscal year.
The new chip will apparently be manufactured at IDT'S new, $500
million foundry in Hillsboro, Oregon -- within sight of a major
Intel research facility. It was designed by a team led by
industry pioneer Glenn Henry, a one-time IBM fellow who is now
president of Centaur Technologies, an Austin, Texas, subsidiary
of IDT.
IDT officials were not willing to comment -- or even confirm --
the existence of the new chip. But they are expected to announce
their plans next month at PC Tech Forum, an industry conference
sponsored by MicroDesign Resources. MDR has said publicly that an
unidentified company will announce a new X86 chip at the
conference, but has declined to identify it or comment on IDT's
plans.
Analyst reaction to the news was mixed. Charles Boucher, who
follows IDT for UBS Securities, was unimpressed. "I don't know
why they think they can succeed," he said. "There are already two
able Intel competitors (Advanced Micro Devices and Cyrix)" in the
market he said. Other contenders for a piece of the X86 market,
including Texas Instruments and United Microelectronics Corp.,
tried and failed to compete with Intel.
One source familiar with the project said IDT has found a way to
significantly reduce the size of the chip. That means more chips
can be produced for less money. "It's a highly streamlined
design," he said. Another source who has seen the design, called
it "the leanest, meanest X86 you can make." The chip, sources
said, will probably be targeted at the burgeoning market for
entry-level computers in Asia, where Intel's brand name has much
less clout than in the United States.
Moreover, said one analyst, "the company has modest expectations.
It isn't trying to beat Intel. It just wants a small piece of the
market." Last year, total sales of X86 processors for the
computer market reached $15.4 billion and Intel owned more than
90 percent of it, according to Dataquest. This year, sales are
expected to grow to $19.6 billion. So even a small percentage of
that market is significant. "This pot of gold is too big to
ignore," said Dataquest analyst Nathan Brookwood.
But grabbing the gold could be very difficult. One obstacle: a
lawsuit. Unless IDT holds rights to the relevant patents -- or is
indisputably on an independent design path -- it is likely to
face expensive legal action by Intel. Another: convincing a PC
maker to take a chance on a new player.
Nevertheless, Analyst Mark Kirstein of In-Stat, a market research
firm in Scottsdale, Ariz., said Intel has inadvertently given its
competitors an opening. The giant chipmaker's decision to place
its chips on a daughter card (instead of just plugging them into
a socket on the motherboard) creates "an 18-month window to
exploit the changeover," he said. PC makers may be even more open
to alternative vendors whose chips fit into their current
motherboard designs. But after that, the existing socket designs
will be obsolete. IDT, and the other competitors, will need to
develop an alternative to Intel's design. "They'll need to get
together to have enough mass to support an alternative
infrastructure," he said.
Despite the difficulty, at least one additional company is
expected to announce an X86 some time this year. And at least a
dozen other design teams -- some in start-ups, others in
established semiconductor companies -- are experimenting with X86
designs, said a Silicon Valley venture capitalist. For them, he
says, the market is just too tempting to ignore.
mikroprocesori.335gogica,
Sta mislite o ubzranju Pentiuma 120 na 133MHz? Ja sam to uradio i za
sada nemam nikakvih problema. Da li neko ima iskustva u ovome, da li
mora da se manje radi sa racunarom da ne bi doslo do pregrevnja?
mikroprocesori.336nenad,
Intel ne prestaje sa proizvodnjom Pentium Pro čipa (razlozi u
sledećoj poruci), ali iduće nedelje izlazi Pentium II procesor,
njegov naslednik.
Glavni noviteti su MMX ektenzije, nove frekvencije rada i
činjenica da je čip integrisan sa eksternim kešom na kartici
umesto da se "ubada" u socket. Zbog ovoga mnogi proizvođači će,
bar u prvo vreme, u svoje sisteme ugrađivati i Intel-ove ploče.
Jedan od retkih koji su spremili na vreme ploču za Pentium II je
i HP.
Ipak, ni njihova ni Intelova ploča neće omogućavati pune dobitke
u brzini, oni će se postići tek krajem godine kada Intel ponudi
tržištu svoj 440LX čipset, specijalno optimizovan za Pentium II.
Dakle, Intelova ponuda od sledeće nedelje uključuje samo tri
procesora: Pentium MMX, Pentium Pro i Pentium II.
Pentium II rollout next week
Intel Corp.'s Pentium II rollout in New York next week will be
marked by scores of desktop PCs, some of which will boast
attractive prices.
Intel will follow next week's press conference with another in
early June, called Business Vision Day, that among other
announcements highlights business applications tuned for the
MMX-enabled Pentium II, said sources close to the Santa Clara,
Calif., company.
But next week, the focus is on hardware, with the 233MHz and
266MHz Pentium II processors debuting in PCs from IBM Personal
Computer Co., Compaq Computer Corp., Hewlett-Packard Co., AST
Research Inc., Dell Computer Corp., Gateway 2000 Inc. and others.
Pentium II comes in new packaging -- a plug-in cartridge rather
than a chip in a socket. Because the chip will not work on
current motherboards, many PC makers initially will use
motherboards provided by Intel.
HP is one vendor using its own motherboard design, in an
entry-level Vectra desktop to be priced at about $3,000, sources
said.
AST, of Irvine, Calif., will have one of the most aggressively
priced systems, a 233MHz Bravo LC with 32MB of RAM and a 2GB hard
drive for about $2,300, officials said.
Although the Pentium II is faster than anything that Intel has
available today, some PC makers have said the real performance
boost will come in the fourth quarter, when Intel releases the
440LX chip set.
mikroprocesori.337nenad,
Međutim, Penitum II je malo problematičan. Pentium II čipova
trenutno ne može da bude više od 2 na ploči (skalabilnost), a MMX
ekstenzije i nisu toliko bitne za snažne servere i high-end
desktop mašine (na stranu što neki kažu da nisu uopšte ni
bitne), pa će Intel onima koje to zanima da ponudi i
redizajnirani Pentium Pro sa 1MB eksternog keša.
On bi trebao da popuni ponudu do seprembra 1998. za kada je (po
drugi put) odložen Intel-ov Deschutes procesor. A i lakše je da
ne menjaju mnogo proizvodne "trake".
Intel to offer Pentium Pro chip for servers, workstations
Intel is planning to deliver another Pentium Pro processor,
tailored for use in servers and workstations. The Pentium Pro
processor, which is expected during the third quarter, will
have a Level 2 cache as large as 1MB.
This, according to analysts, would significantly boost
performance and scalability in systems.
"The bigger cache helps scalability in high-end
configurations," said Nathan Brookwood, an analyst at
Dataquest, in San Jose, Calif. "And it'll help performance some
by taking traffic off the system bus and main memory."
However, this performance boost will come at a price. The
deeper cache processor, which will run at speeds of 200 MHz, is
estimated to cost $2,000, which is about twice the price of
existing Pentium Pros, sources said.
The processor is intended to tide the market over while Intel
prepares its Deschutes chip. This processor, which has a
four-way capability, has been delayed a second time and is now
expected to ship in volume in September 1998, sources said.
In the meantime, the cache-rich Pentium Pro will give vendors
an upgrade path for their systems based on multiprocessing
architectures. The Pentium II, in contrast, currently scales to
only two processors without the help of bridge technology,
which is designed to link two Pentium Pro buses to create
larger servers.
"Pentium II is not the whole answer for everyone in 1997," said
Mark Linesch, director of strategic planning at Compaq, in
Houston.
The more scalable architecture of the Pentium Pro and the
capability to address as much as 4GB of memory make it a better
processor for servers, Linesch said. Compaq will continue to
offer Pentium Pro-based products, including a quad-processor
workstation, alongside desktop systems using Intel's Pentium II
processor this year, Linesch added.
Hewlett-Packard and IBM said that they would continue to offer
existing Pentium Pro processors in their high-end servers, with
some support for Pentium II in the entry-level one- and
two-processor arenas.
The Pentium II will ship in the fall with support for
error-correcting code on the bus. But analysts are not
convinced that servers will benefit from Intel's latest
technologies.
"There is no benefit to having MMX technology in a server,"
said Greg Weiss, an analyst at D.H. Brown and Associates, in
Port Chester, N.Y.
Weiss pointed out that workstations wouldn't take advantage of
MMX either, because they have more powerful graphics
accelerator cards.
Intel declined comment.
mikroprocesori.338zlaya,
-> #335, gogica- Sta mislite o ubzranju Pentiuma 120 na 133MHz? Ja sam to uradio
- i za sada nemam nikakvih problema. Da li neko ima iskustva u
- ovome, da li mora da se manje radi sa racunarom da ne bi doslo
- do pregrevnja?
Procesori spadaju u kalibrisane komponente. Jednostavno se uzme odbirak iz
cele serije, i testira na određene uslove rada. Posle pokazanih rezultata
dobijaju titlove o tipu i brzini rada. Znači ako imaš sreće može da ti radi
bez problema. Crći neće za toliku razliku u brzini, samo može da se zaglupi,
ili da naizgled radi potpuno ok, a kad pozoveš neku drnzvrc instrukciju koja
sa poziva jednom u 5 godina da ti krahira...
mikroprocesori.339vstan,
-> #335, gogica> Sta mislite o ubzranju Pentiuma 120 na 133MHz? Ja sam to uradio
> i za sada nemam nikakvih problema. Da li neko ima iskustva u
> ovome, da li mora da se manje radi sa racunarom da ne bi doslo
> do pregrevnja?
Uopšteno, dakle ne samo za P5 - ako radi radi, ako zeza posle
izvesnog vremena bolje je ne rizikovati.
mikroprocesori.340kostja,
-> #333, zvlaki=> K6 (ovaj koji sam ja video na 166) radi na pentium matiŔnim ploŔama
=> ALI NE NA SVIM!!
Deder, mozes mi pojasnis nesto blize
taj doticni fenomen.
mikroprocesori.341nenad,
-> #337, nenad> Međutim, Penitum II je malo problematičan.
Bogami je Pentium II malo više problematičan - nije još ni izašao
a izgleda da ima bag! Da stvar bude gora tvrdi se da se taj bag
vuče još od Pentium Pro-a, a što je najgore - moguće da ovaj bag
i nije usamljen.
Osnovni problem se sastoji u tome što Pentium Pro/II ne uspe da
prijavi "poruku" o grešci koja se dogodila prilikom konverzije.
Postoji sumnja da se u još nekim slučajevima procesor ne ponaša
po specifikaciji u slučaju greške.
Pentium serija, uključujići i MMX, nije ugrožena, kao ni AMD-ov K6.
Possible Pentium II bug detected
Even before Intel Corp. releases its Pentium II processor,
company watchers say the new chip is flawed by a floating point
conversion error.
The apparent bug, reported on Intel-watcher Robert Collins' Web
site, occurs when the Pentium II fails to warn the system after a
conversion error.
Collins says that the Pentium II and Pentium Pro fail to report
the error in many cases.
In a note published on his page, Collins claims that the error
only affects the Pentium II and Pentium Pro which have a similar
architecture. He maintains the problem does not affect the
Pentium, Pentium with MMX, or Advanced Micro Devices Inc.'s K6
processor.
Collins could not be reached for comment. On the site, he has
posted a source-code file and executable files that demonstrate
the bug.
Intel spokesman Howard High said the company learned of the
possible bug about a week ago when Collins posted articles about
the problem on Usenet. High said Collins refused to give Intel
further details.
Once the information is published, the company will review it and
determine whether the bug is legitimate. "There's an existing
process we put in place since we had the Pentium flaw in 1994. We
don't determine whether an issue is important or not, we let the
end customer determine whether its an issue," he said.
If Intel decides there is a problem, it will post information in
the errata it publishes with all its processors, High said.
Since the Pentium II is based on the same basic architecture as
the Pentium Pro, "it would be surprising if there was something
large and significant," wrong, according to High. "It would have
been noticed by now."
But Collins' post says Intel may have missed the error if it used
a popular floating point test program which he says contains a
bug.
High would not talk about the timing of Collins' report, which
comes two days before Intel, based in Santa Clara, Calif.,
formally launches the new processor in New York. Collins said
that he only learned of the problem last month. His site,
dedicated to "providing information about the Intel Architecture
processors," has been a source of irritation to Intel, which has
taken legal action against him on a variety of issues. Collins
maintains that he doesn't "hate" Intel but only disagrees with
the company's business practices.
"I disagree with their method of cornering the market [which is
most likely illegal too]. I disagree with their strong-arm
tactics of forcing all of their best customers to buy only from
Intel, or they would be put out of business. I disagree with
their strong-arm tactics of going into a well-known independent
software developer's office and telling him he had better abandon
his $300,000/year product and work for Intel, or they would put
him out of business in six months," according to a message
Collins left on his site.
mikroprocesori.342zvlaki,
-> #340, kostja>=> K6 (ovaj koji sam ja video na 166) radi na pentium matiŔnim ploŔama
>=> ALI NE NA SVIM!!
>
> Deder, mozes mi pojasnis nesto blize
> taj doticni fenomen.
E,pa nemogu.Ja sam tako samo cuo.Verovatno ga je ortak proveravao
na par ploca i dosao do tog zakljucka.
mikroprocesori.343nenad,
Šta nam Intel sprema do kraja ove i za sledeću godinu. Većina
nastojanja u smeru povećanja skalabilnosti sistema zasnovanih
na njihovim procesorima.
Intel readies Slot 2 to boost scalability in next-generation processors
Intel early next year will unveil Slot 2 -- yet another
interface -- for its Deschutes processor and the Merced IA-64
processor that will follow. Slot 2, along with a new core-logic
chip set, will allow the Pentium II-generation Deschutes to
scale to four processors and run from a 100-MHz system bus.
The Pentium II processors to be unveiled on Wednesday can scale
only to two processors and operate from a 66-MHz bus. Systems
to be announced along with the processor launch will use the
existing 440FX core logic chip set.
This fall, Intel will introduce the 440LX chip set, which adds
support for the Accelerated Graphics Port, 66-MHz synchronous
DRAM (SDRAM), and the Ultra-DMA 33Mbps hard drive protocol.
(See "Klamath systems are around the corner, but expect a hefty
price.")
Early next year, Intel will introduce Deschutes, which uses
0.25-micron technology to cut power consumption and increase
speed. Aimed first at mobile applications, Deschutes will begin
to show up in workstations and servers in the second quarter
when Slot 2 and the 440BX core-logic chip set ship. The chip
set will enable a 100-MHz system bus to match the 100-MHz SDRAM
that will begin to displace 66-MHz memory next year.
Later in 1998, Intel will unveil the 450NX chip set, which,
along with Slot 2, enables four-way Deschutes processor-based
servers. Slot 2 is also expected to support the IA-64 Merced
chip being developed by Intel and Hewlett-Packard as the
next-architecture processor.
mikroprocesori.344nenad,
A pomoću ovog programa možete da vidite šta nam je pripremio za
ovu godinu. ;)
Nova datoteka:
dos\info\hard\*.*
------------------
fistbug.zip 10k ű Test FPU baga na Pentium Pro i Pentium II procesorima
mikroprocesori.345kostja,
-> #343, nenad=> existing 440FX core logic chip set.
=> This fall, Intel will introduce the 440LX chip set, which adds
=> when Slot 2 and the 440BX core-logic chip set ship. The chip
=> Later in 1998, Intel will unveil the 450NX chip set, which,
Divno, eto nama veselja da opet raspravljamo
koji je cipset za koju namenu i sta od toga
svega vredi...
mikroprocesori.346orlic,
Moze li meni neko da objasni u cemu je greska kod Intelovih Pentiuma (i
starog i novog, ako je slicno)? Znam ja kako se greska manifestuje, ali me
interesuje gde su pogresili. Standardni odgovor je "u mikrokodu". Odlicno,
ali sta je to? Neko mi rece da za svaki procesor mora da se napise i kako ce
da radi te da se tu malo zeznu ;) sto me je ubilo u pojam... Dakle, molio
bih da odgovori budu bar logicni :)
mikroprocesori.347dzakic,
-> #346, orlic> Moze li meni neko da objasni u cemu je greska kod Intelovih
> Pentiuma (i starog i novog, ako je slicno)? Znam ja kako se
> greska manifestuje, ali me interesuje gde su pogresili.
> Standardni odgovor je "u mikrokodu". Odlicno, ali sta je to?
Mikroprocesor izvršava instrukcije. Često kažemo mašinska
instrukcija, to je ono što pišemo kada radimo u asembleru. Svaka
takva instrukcija unutar procesora izvršava se u više koraka i
algoritam za njeno izvršavanje se zove mikrokod. Mikrokod je
skup mikroinstrukcija, tačnije skup signala unutar procesora
koji upravljaju pojedinim njegovim delovima. Ako je instrukcija
recimo add ax,bx (uvećaj registar ax za vrednost u registru bx),
mikrokod bi bio otprilike: vrednost iz ax prosledi u prvi
ulaz aritmetičko logičke jedinice, vrednost iz bx u drugi,
saberi, rezultat upiši u ax... Ukratko, za svaki ovakav korak
tačno se zna koji signal treba aktivirati i najčešće se više
ovakvih mikroinstrukcija može izvršavati istovremeno.
Ovo je samo jedna dosta jednostavna instrukcija, a primer njenog
koda je ovde samo prepričan :). Kod složenijih instrukcija se
puno toga može iskomplikovati, tako da je razumljivo da prilikom
projektovanja ili realizacije dođe do greške.
mikroprocesori.348zormi,
-> #346, orlic* Moze li meni neko da objasni u cemu je greska kod Intelovih Pentiuma (i
* starog i novog, ako je slicno)?
Kod starog Pentiuma je dolazilo do retkih grešaka u deljenju.
Da bi postigli maximalne performanse pri radu sa realnim brojevima
(a postigli su jer svi ostali procesori zaostaju po tom pitanju)
projektanti Intela su ugradili u hardware komplikovan algoritam
deljenja koji smanjuje potreban broj koraka koristeći pritom
nekoliko ugradjenih tabela. Greška je bila trivijalna: tokom upisa
jedne od tih tabela u završni dizajn procesora za to zaduženi inženjer
je imao bug u C programu za "download" pa je par polja ostalo prazno.
Kod Pentium Pro/II greška je u signalizaciji kada se detektuje prekoračenje
(opet u "matematičkom" delu) pri konverziji real formata u integer. Jedan
flag bit bi trebalo da se promeni kao obaveštenje o tome a on se u nekim
slučajevima ne menja.
Uopšte, procesori rade po dosta jednostavnim principima ali je sama
implementacija jako složena. Standardna studentska vežba je napraviti
kolo za sabiranje 8-bitnih integera od nekoliko registara i logičkih
kola, što je praistorija mikroprocesora. Kada sve to treba obavljati
sa širokim spektrom podataka, pa sve računske operacije, pa ubaciti
kontrole prekoračenja, pa još optimizovati da se sve završi u par
taktova... dodje se do angažovanih više hiljada medjuspregnutih
tranzistora u jednoj mašinskoj instrukciji.
mikroprocesori.349nenad,
Digital je tužio Intel-a za narušavanje patentnih prava - navodno
je Intel iskoristio 10 Digital-ovih patenata da bi poboljšao
karakteristike Pentium, Pentium Pro i Penitum II čipova.
Digital sues Intel for patent infringement
Digital Equipment Corp. is suing Intel Corp. in a patent
infringement suit between two of the computer industry's largest
companies.
The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Worcester, Mass.,
alleges that Intel improperly used 10 Digital patents to enhance
the performance of the Pentium, Pentium Pro and Pentium II chips.
Officials at Intel, of Santa Clara, Calif., were not available
for comment.
Digital, of Maynard, Mass., claims economic injury, and is
seeking an injunction to bar Intel from using the technology in
future processors. It is also seeking unspecified monetary
damages.
The patents in question relate to cache management, branch
prediction and high-speed instruction, and were issued between
1988 and 1996.
In a prepared statement, Digital's CEO Robert Palmer said that
"as a result of the infringement of our patents, Intel has
strengthened its monopoly in the X86 market and is seeking to
extend its monopoly to higher-performance processors."
Palmer continued that Intel's action "threatens the competitive
environment essential for continued innovation and growth in the
computer industry."
mikroprocesori.350nenad,
Izgleda da će se pred sudnicom napraviti red. ;) Desilo se nešto
što bi malo ko očekivao - i Cyrix je tužio Intel za krađu
patenata!
Izgleda da je došlo vreme da se Intel sa tužilačke preseli na
optuženičku klupu. :)
Cyrix files patent infringement suit against Intel
Digital Equipment Corp. is not the only company gunning for Intel
Corp.'s legal hide. Late Tuesday, Cyrix Corp. also accused the
giant chip maker of patent infringement.
The lawsuit, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern
District of Texas, claims that Intel infringed upon "one or both
of the patents" issued to Cyrix by the U.S. Patent Office on
Tuesday.
One of the patents in dispute is for a microprocessor with
externally controllable power management. The other is for a
pipelined processor with register renaming hardware that
accommodates multiple size registers.
"We felt the Pentium, Pentium Pro and Pentium II all infringe on
one or both of these patents," said Cyrix spokesman Mark
Lipscomb. "We just had to legally protect ourselves."
The suit seeks preliminary and permanent injunctive relief along
with unspecified damages and fees.
Cyrix's shares were up 7/8 of a point in midmorning trading.
Intel, which fell 6 3/4 points on Tuesday, was down more than 4
points.
The charges against Intel follow by a day a separate patent
infringement lawsuit against the company by Digital. In that
lawsuit, Digital claimed that Intel stole some of its designs to
build the Pentium microprocessor line.
Lipscomb said he did not know whether Cyrix had first sought to
resolve its differences with Intel before asking the courts to
intervene. However, he expressed confidence about Cyrix's chances
of prevailing over its archrival.
"There have been a number of cases brought against us by Intel,"
he said. "We've never lost."
Lipscomb said the suit against Intel was not a retaliatory move.
"I don't sense that," he said. "We have a very strong engineering
staff here, and we have a number of patents already awarded.
Intellectual property is the life blood of any high-tech
company."
He said this was the first time that Cyrix has sued Intel.
A spokesman for Intel was not immediately available for comment.
mikroprocesori.351nenad,
U međuvremenu, Intel je priznao bag na Pentium Pro/II čipovima i
dao objašnjenje. Ispravljena verzija procesora će se pojaviti u
januaru (!), ali izgleda da ni jedna od popularnih aplikacija
nije ugrožena ovim bagom.
Intel acknowledges Pentium II erratum; offers explanation
Less than one week after an obscure floating-point bug was
uncovered in its newest processor, Intel Corp. today identified
and confirmed the existence of the problem.
Intel officials in Santa Clara, Calif., said today a "flag
erratum" affects both its Pentium Pro and Pentium II processors.
The problem occurs when floating-point numbers are converted to
integers--a somewhat rare execution required by some
floating-point-intensive applications.
``Due to the large range provided by floating-point numbers, some
of them may be too large to fit within the range of the integer
value to which they are being converted,'' Intel said in a
release posted on its Web site.
``When an application attempts such an invalid conversion,'' the
release continued, ``the [silicon] should return a uniquely
defined value and signal this exception condition. The erratum in
the Pentium Pro and Pentium II ... may not signal the exception
in all cases.''
Intel officials said the erratum can be fixed through a software
workaround. However, none are currently available because, as of
this afternoon, no specific applications have been affected by
the erratum.
More than a dozen ISVs, including Microsoft Corp., Oracle Corp.,
Baan Co. and Computer Associates International Inc., said the
erratum does not affect their applications.
Intel officials said that customers who experience the erratum
should contact their software provider, which should provide a
workaround.
Intel will have corrected the erratum in the next version of
Pentium II, due in January, they said.
The company is understandably cautious about minimizing the
potential significance of the bug, given the infamous 1994
floating-point bug discovered in the Pentium.
"We're being up-front about this, but we're not [passing] any
judgment about the impact,'' said Louanne Darbonne, strategic
press relations manager at Intel.
mikroprocesori.353v.dragojevic,
Kratko:
AMD K5 166 ili Cyrix 166+
za generalne namene sa posebnim osvrtom na igre.
Sta se misli ovde o Cyrix 200+.
mikroprocesori.354jevta,
-> #353, v.dragojevic> Sta se misli ovde o Cyrix 200+.
Solidan proceor, NU 95 sysinfo retko pređe 54, obično 51-52.
Poređenja radi Cyrix P166+ oko 47... Teško je naći ploču koja
BEZ PROBLEMA gura 75 MHZ, a još teže čini mi se memoriju koja bi
pratila isti takt. Koristio sam ga oko 2,5 meseca i bio
relativno zadovoljan. (Bar jednom dnevno mi se zakucala mašina,
zašta nikako ne krivim procesor, već one druge dve stavke. (Sa
original Cyrix fan$cooler hlađenje je ok)
Trenutno sam na p166+ sa GA HX pločom i ne uspevam još da je
zakucam. Danas sam se malo 'igrao' sa AMD K6 200 i čim mu malo
padne cena (sada je nešto malo ispod 800) može se uzeti. Inače,
interesantno je da na gore pomenutoj GA HX ploči isti na
NU 95 Sysinfo pokazuje neverovatnih 83-84. Znam da je taj test
nedovoljno kompetentan, ali definitivno impresivno zvuči toliki
indeks, ako pogledamo da obični Pentium Intel 200 daje svega
43-44 ;)
mikroprocesori.355kostja,
-> #354, jevta=> zakucam. Danas sam se malo 'igrao' sa AMD K6 200 i cim mu malo
=> padne cena (sada je nesto malo ispod 800) moze se uzeti. Inace,
=> interesantno je da na gore pomenutoj GA HX ploci isti na
Deder, napisi nesto malce vise o doticnoj
kombinaciji (GA HX & K6 200) jer me strasno
zanima, a bogme i sam CPU.
Sifra: GA586HX
mikroprocesori.356nenad,
Opšte zahlađenje odnosa među proizvođačima mikroprocesura. Sada
je Intel tužio Digital-a. :)
Round two: Intel sues Digital
Intel is suing Digital for allegedly violating its intellectual
property rights, the second round in the legal battle between
the two companies.
Over the past week, Intel has allegedly asked Digital to return
confidential product-related information -- from engineering
documents to chip prototypes -- that Intel gave over the past
few years under a non-disclosure agreement, said Howard High,
an Intel spokesman. Digital has licensed Intel microprocessors,
High said, and Intel gave Digital the product information in
order to allow it to do advanced engineering work. As of
Tuesday, however, Digital had not returned the information,
even though a contract spells out that either party can request
the end to the non-disclosure agreement at any time, he said.
Digital officials were not immediately available for comment
Wednesday. But Tuesday's suit, filed in the U.S. District Court
in San Jose, Calif., was related to Digital's recent patent
infringement lawsuit against Intel, High said.
"When you've got a situation where another company is accusing
you of theft and making accusations on your integrity, the last
thing that you want to do is take your confidential advanced
intellectual property information and supply that into that
company," High said.
Digital's suit alleges that Intel stole Digital's patented
Alpha microprocessor technology and used it in its Pentium,
Pentium Pro, and Pentium II chip lines. Intel, whose chip
market share dwarfs that of Digital's Alpha, has denied those
allegations and vowed to vigorously defend against the suit.
Digital officials were not immediately available for comment
Wednesday.
While Digital has a long-term contract with Intel for certain
products, its microprocessor contract runs only through the
third quarter of this year, and the companies have yet to
negotiate an extension, High said.
mikroprocesori.357v.dragojevic,
Predstavljen je Cyrix M2 procesor.
Po prvim testovima brzi je od Intela ll 233, a kosta upola manje.
mikroprocesori.358kostja,
-> #357, v.dragojevic=> Predstavljen je Cyrix M2 procesor.
=> Po prvim testovima brzi je od Intela ll 233, a kosta upola manje.
Odlicno, e, sad koliko ja znam Cyrix treba da
vidimo gde se zaj*bao...
mikroprocesori.359v.dragojevic,
-> #358, kostjaVD> Odlicno, e, sad koliko ja znam Cyrix treba da
VD> vidimo gde se zaj*bao...
I dalje mu nije jaca strana floating point, odnosno sporiji je od
Intela.
Nisam primetio da Cyrix pravi greske, bar u poslednje vreme.
Setimo se njihov poslednji procesor je odneo prvu nagradu na Comdex-u.
Intel ih pravi i to na istom mestu gde je napravio gresku sa
poslednjim procesorom.
Zapanjujuce je da su opravdanja ista kao pre par godina.
mikroprocesori.360d.mladen,
Da li je u bilo cemu AMD K5 166 losiji od Intel-a 133, i ako jeste
koliko?
mikroprocesori.361nenad,
Novi klon Intel-ovih procesora dolazi iz firme IDT.
IDT to debut new chip
The newest x86 processor in the market, a dark-horse entry from
Integrated Device Technology Inc., will debut next month at the
Computek trade show in Taipei.
Sources in Taiwan say the new chip will initially be offered in
180MHz and 200MHz versions. It will be priced at about $150 and
support MMX technology. Volume shipments of the chip, which will
be produced at 0.36 micron technology, are expected to begin in
August, according to industry sources.
Sources say the chip, which will be positioned in performance
between Intel's MMX Pentium and AMD's K6, will be targeted at the
entry-level PC market.
IDT, of Santa Clara, Calif., is a maker of embedded RISC
processors, specialized memory and networking chips.
IDT officials would not comment -- or even confirm -- the
existence of the new chip.
mikroprocesori.362nesha,
Jel sam ja lud, il amd K5 133 nije ni malo brzi od Pentiuma na 100?
mikroprocesori.363emajsijuen,
-> #362, neshaNe>> Jel sam ja lud, il amd K5 133 nije ni malo brzi od Pentiuma na 100?
Nisi lud. :) U skoli imamo nekoliko tih K5/133 i moram da priznam da su veoma
spori...
mikroprocesori.364cape,
Zasto mi BIOS AMD K5 na 133 MHz uvek prikazuje da radi na taktu
100 MHz ( isto je i sa test programima ) ?
mikroprocesori.365ivanl,
-> #364, cape Ca> Zasto mi BIOS AMD K5 na 133 MHz uvek prikazuje da radi na taktu
Ca> 100 MHz ( isto je i sa test programima ) ?
Zato što radi na 100 MHz...
mikroprocesori.366zormi,
-> #364, cape* Zasto mi BIOS AMD K5 na 133 MHz uvek prikazuje da radi na taktu
* 100 MHz ( isto je i sa test programima ) ?
Zato što i radi na toliko ;). Tačna oznaka je AMD K5 PR133 što znači
da se poredi sa Pentiumom na 133, interni takt nema veze sa PR ocenom
a iznosi 100 MHz.
mikroprocesori.367zvlaki,
Na koliko megaherca radi amd pr166 ?
Imam ploču 8500TVD i ako je džamperišem na 166 MHz Norton Util 95
javlja 117MHz.Kada prespojim kao za pentijum na 200 MHz , onda
prikazuje 133 ili 166, nesećam se sada.Ali zato tada malo malo pa
pukne neki program što znači da sam preterao.Džampere sam
proveravao po sto puta da nisam slučajno nešto pevideo ali ne.
Isti Norton pokazuje Benchmark 48-50.Da li je to to ?
mikroprocesori.368gmatic,
Koji mi Pentijum klon preporucujete AMD ili CYRIX(IBM)?
mikroprocesori.369miskop,
-> #368, gmatic--> Koji mi Pentijum klon preporucujete AMD ili CYRIX(IBM)?
Ma kakav klon, Intel je prava stvar...:)
mikroprocesori.370hadzi,
-> #369, miskopAko ti treba snaga, onda uzmi Cyrix, ako ti treba puno
proracunavanja onda Intel. Ako samo hoces jeftin Pentium onda uzmi
AMD K5
mikroprocesori.371gmatic,
-> #370, hadzi==> Ako ti treba snaga, onda uzmi Cyrix, ako ti treba puno
==> proracunavanja onda Intel. Ako samo hoces jeftin Pentium onda
==> uzmi AMD K5
Pa po oglasima vidim da je recimo 166+ jevtiniji nego na primer
AMD na 133!!! Kako mislis jeftin? Jel to zbog onog na 100Mhz?
Ako mislis na njega bolje je da dodam jos koju desetinu dudova
pa lepo mupim procuesora.
Inace meni se po opisima a i ostalom mlooogo svidja 166+.
I da nebavim se proracunima i CAD-om. Ovo mi dakle odgovara.
Pitanje je vise bilo dali se dobro pokazao(nema bagova,stabilnost
i sl.).
mikroprocesori.372hadzi,
-> #371, gmaticPa, mozda je ovaj jeftiniji zato sto to nije Intelov Pentium an
166MHz nego Cyrixov koji je na nizem taktu ali radi kao 166-tica
zato sto je PentiumPro ranga (ili tako nesto; uglavnom "sporiji"
je). Tvoja odlika je ionako najvaznija, pa zato (da ne duzim),
zdravo!
mikroprocesori.373epson,
-> #372, hadzi
│ zato sto je PentiumPro ranga (ili tako nesto; uglavnom "sporiji"
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────
U nazivu Cyrixa 686 nema nikakve veze sa šestom generacijom procesora (P6 -
Pentium Pro) .
mikroprocesori.374hadzi,
-> #373, epsonTrebao sam, izgleda, reci "PentiumPro", jer to nisam izmislio nego
su to rekli u vodecim casopisima u svetu (kao npr. "Svet
Kompjutera" ili "PC Press")
mikroprocesori.375gmatic,
-> #372, hadzi==> Pa, mozda je ovaj jeftiniji zato sto to nije Intelov Pentium
==> an 166MHz nego Cyrixov koji je na nizem taktu ali radi kao
==> 166-tica zato sto je PentiumPro ranga (ili tako nesto;
==> uglavnom "sporiji" je). Tvoja odlika je ionako najvaznija, pa
==> zato (da ne duzim),
Ma znam ja to sve. Nego me zanima kako se pokazala. Pouzdano?
Inace pravi takt joj je 133MHz. Dakle magistrala 33MHz sto i nije
tako lose. Mozda cak i najbolje jer je tako najstabilniji sistem
a nije mnogo sporije.
mikroprocesori.376hadzi,
-> #375, gmaticDa ja biram AMD bi otpao ODMAH! Birao bi Cyrix ako bi hteo da
ustedim, a birao bi Intel ako hocu JAK math koprocesor.
mikroprocesori.377ddamir,
-> #375, gmatic>Inace pravi takt joj je 133MHz. Dakle magistrala 33MHz sto i nije
Siguran si? Pre ce biti 2x66 MHz...
mikroprocesori.378d.mladen,
Da ja biram AMD bi otpao ODMAH! Birao bi Cyrix ako bi hteo da
ustedim, a birao bi Intel ako hocu JAK math koprocesor.
-Ja sam planirao da uzmem bas AMD jer je, koliko sam ja razumeo,
negde na sredini - nesto malo sporiji od Cyrix-a i Intela, ali
mu fpu nije tako los kao kod Cyrixa. Zato mi se cini da bi bio dobar
za neku opstu namenu. Pre nekog vremena sam postavio pitanje da li je
K5 PR166 u bilo cemu losiji od Intela 133, a mislio sam na fpu. Ako su
tu negde onda se K5 vise isplati, kosta manje, u opstoj primeni je
nesto slabiji od Intela 166 ...naravno ovo ne vazi ukoliko mu je fpu
mnogo slabiji nego Int. 133.
mikroprocesori.379gmatic,
-> #376, hadzi==> Da ja biram AMD bi otpao ODMAH! Birao bi Cyrix ako bi hteo da
==> ustedim, a birao bi Intel ako hocu JAK math koprocesor.
Tako i ja mislim ali cisto da proverim.
mikroprocesori.380gmatic,
-> #377, ddamir==> Siguran si? Pre ce biti 2x66 MHz...
A sta onda bese 33?
Ako je ovo drugo onda OK mada stabilnost...
mikroprocesori.381gmatic,
-> #378, d.mladen==> -Ja sam planirao da uzmem bas AMD jer je, koliko sam ja
==> razumeo, negde na sredini - nesto malo sporiji od Cyrix-a i
==> Intela, ali mu fpu nije tako los kao kod Cyrixa. Zato mi se
==> cini da bi bio dobar za neku opstu namenu. Pre nekog vremena
Pa za opstu namenu ti je i Cyrix dobar. Malo se koristi FPU (sem
CAD i proracuni a ja ni sa jednim ni sa drugim neradim za sada).
Ma ja sam se jos davno odlucio za Curix samo me interesuje da nema
neku boljku kao prvi pentiumi (citaj bagove i slicno).
mikroprocesori.382epson,
-> #374, hadzi
│ Trebao sam, izgleda, reci "PentiumPro", jer to nisam izmislio nego
│ su to rekli u vodecim casopisima u svetu (kao npr. "Svet
│ Kompjutera" ili "PC Press")
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────
Kao prvo citiraj poruke na koje odgovaraš . Što se tiče svetskih časopisa
to sigurno nisu "Svet Kompijutera" (koji je klasu, ako ne i dve klase ispod
PCPressa, Mikroa, Računara ...) i PC Press . Sad što se tiče procesora
interesujeme šta to Cyrix povezuje sa P6 ?
mikroprocesori.383emajsijuen,
-> #374, hadziHa>> su to rekli u vodecim casopisima u svetu (kao npr. "Svet
Ha>> Kompjutera" ili "PC Press")
:))))))))))))))))))))))))
mikroprocesori.384kupinar,
-> #374, hadzi> su to rekli u vodecim casopisima u svetu (kao npr. "Svet
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Kompjutera" ili "PC Press")
^^^^^^^^^^
Ovo bi mozda moglo za vic godine.
mikroprocesori.385srdans,
Posto se povela po kozna koji put rasprava o procesorima,ajd` da se
malo nadovezem.AMD je ubedljivo najbolje resenje u ovom treneutku,
to nije moja ocena,vec ocena ljudi koji pisu PC Magazin(pogledati
testove u junskom broju,AMD K5 procesor u konfiguraciji koja
ima iste komponente , ne da stize intel na 166 vec malo zaostaje za
I 200.)Opet ponavljam ,rec je o K5-166.Slicna situacija je bila
i u testovima PC World-a.Cyrix je brz procesor,al` je brza i 486-ica
na 300mhz ,sto je otprilike Cyrix.Iste rezultate dobija te i ako pokre-
nete bilo koji test program.Sto se tice K6 on je ostavio P200 mmx,PPRO 200,
P2 233 poprilicno za sobom(K6-233),a jedino je brzi Pentium 2 na 266mhz.
Inace AMD se konacno pojavljuje kao izbor solidnog broja firmi koje se
oglasavaju?(naravno ne DELL,GATEWAY i ostali koji samtraju da je cena
jedinA sigurnost kvaliteta).Eto toliko od mene,malo uvozne pameti.
P.S: A da me predlozite AMD-u za zastupnika u YU?
... "Transporter chief , beam the landing party to the bridge"
mikroprocesori.386hadzi,
-> #382, epsonNemam pojma :) Salim se. Prica se, nezavisno od ranga, u pomenutim
casopisima da je Cyrix, iako na nizem taktu, jaci od Intela na
visem taktu. Npr. Cyrix 166+ radi na taktu 133Mhz, a "jaci" je od
Pentiuma na 166 (ili tako nesto :).
mikroprocesori.387hadzi,
-> #384, kupinarDajem ti ovlascenje za koriscenje teksta, ako si raspolozen da ga
stavis medju viceve :)))))).
mikroprocesori.388nenad,
-> #376, hadzi> Da ja biram AMD bi otpao ODMAH!
Zašto? Čuo sam puno pohvalnih reči o K6 procesoru.
mikroprocesori.389epson,
-> #381, gmatic
│ Ma ja sam se jos davno odlucio za Curix samo me interesuje da nema
│ neku boljku kao prvi pentiumi (citaj bagove i slicno).
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────
Problem je samo nepotpuna kompatibilnost .
mikroprocesori.390gmatic,
-> #389, epson==> Problem je samo nepotpuna kompatibilnost .
Sto vazi samo za starije stvari nadam se. Dali sve radi OK ili
nesto starije neradi bas kako treba?
mikroprocesori.391epson,
-> #386, hadzi
│ casopisima da je Cyrix, iako na nizem taktu, jaci od Intela na
│ visem taktu. Npr. Cyrix 166+ radi na taktu 133Mhz, a "jaci" je od
│ Pentiuma na 166 (ili tako nesto :).
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────
Cyrix je jači od P5 u CPU delu, dok je u FPU deli lošiijii i još nije
100% kompatibilan . Ti si pomenuo PentiumPro, a ne običan Pentium !
PS. Citiraj poruke !
mikroprocesori.392epson,
-> #388, nenad
│ Zašto? Čuo sam puno pohvalnih reči o K6 procesoru.
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────
Koliko mi se čini on govori o K5 .
mikroprocesori.393d.mladen,
-Pa za opstu namenu ti je i Cyrix dobar. Malo se koristi FPU (sem
-CAD i proracuni a ja ni sa jednim ni sa drugim neradim za sada).
Ja sam mislio i na malo CAD-a i sl.
mikroprocesori.394hadzi,
-> #388, nenadKolika mu je CENA???
mikroprocesori.395epson,
-> #390, gmatic
│ Sto vazi samo za starije stvari nadam se. Dali sve radi OK ili
│ nesto starije neradi bas kako treba?
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────
Ne znam . Ali ti treba peč za 3DStudio, NT (?), razne igre ...
mikroprocesori.396gmatic,
-> #393, d.mladen==> Ja sam mislio i na malo CAD-a i sl.
Ja nisam i zasta mi najvise treba:
Grafika u W95, malo programiranja i stinica i dosta igara za sad dok
se ne izivim.
mikroprocesori.397gmatic,
E sad zanim me cena AMD procesora koji radi na 166. Dali kada to vidim u
oglasima jeste njegov takt ili je slucaj kao sa Cyrixom?
mikroprocesori.398gmatic,
-> #395, epson==> Ne znam . Ali ti treba pec za 3DStudio, NT (?), razne igre
==> ...
Aj prva dva ali za koje razne igre mi treba patch (e pola sata se
mislim sta je to pec i stalno mi na pamet pada smederevac).
mikroprocesori.399ivanl,
-> #397, gmatic Gm> E sad zanim me cena AMD procesora koji radi na 166. Dali kada to
Gm> vidim u oglasima jeste njegov takt ili je slucaj kao sa Cyrixom?
Isti slučaj kao sa Cyrix-om, AMD K5 166 radi na 133 MHz.
mikroprocesori.400hadzi,
-> #399, ivanl(:) Isti slucaj kao i se Cyrix-om, AMD K5 166 radi na 133 MHz.
Pa sto se onda zove K5 166? Da li radi na "166" MHz ili samo "onako"?
mikroprocesori.401gmatic,
-> #399, ivanl==> Isti slucaj kao sa Cyrix-om, AMD K5 166 radi na 133 MHz.
Pa koji je bolji Cyrix ili AMD na istom taktu?
mikroprocesori.402gmatic,
-> #400, hadzi==> Pa sto se onda zove K5 166? Da li radi na "166" MHz ili samo
==> "onako"?
Valjda zato sto je u klasi 166-tica a ne 133-ojki.
mikroprocesori.403epson,
-> #398, gmatic
│ Aj prva dva ali za koje razne igre mi treba patch (e pola sata se
│ mislim sta je to pec i stalno mi na pamet pada smederevac).
└─────────────────────────────────────────────────
Pičim P5 pa me ne interesuje :) . Peč = prepravka programa/igre
('update') .
mikroprocesori.404emajsijuen,
-> #400, hadziHa>> Pa sto se onda zove K5 166? Da li radi na "166" MHz ili samo "onako"?
To znaci da moze da se poredi sa Intelom na 166 Mhz...
mikroprocesori.405ivanl,
-> #400, hadzi Ha> (:) Isti slucaj kao i se Cyrix-om, AMD K5 166 radi na 133 MHz.
Ha> Pa sto se onda zove K5 166? Da li radi na "166" MHz ili samo "onako"?
Zove se K5 166 zato što parira intelu P5 166.
mikroprocesori.406ivanl,
-> #401, gmatic ==> Isti slucaj kao sa Cyrix-om, AMD K5 166 radi na 133 MHz.
Gm> Pa koji je bolji Cyrix ili AMD na istom taktu?
AMD ima bolji FPU od Cyrix-a ali je i skuplji, odnos cena/kvalitet
im je po meni isti.
mikroprocesori.407gmatic,
-> #403, epson==> Picim P5 pa me ne interesuje :) . Pec = prepravka
==> programa/igre ('update') .
Ma shvatio sam ali mi je stalno c sa jednom crtom bilo u mislima.
Sto neneapisa patch da se razumemo.
mikroprocesori.408gmatic,
-> #406, ivanl==> AMD ima bolji FPU od Cyrix-a ali je i skuplji, odnos
==> cena/kvalitet im je po meni isti.
Znaci Cyrix jer mi netreba FPU. Dal sam u pravu?
Sad nemoj neko da me ubedjuje ma treba ti FPU jer mi netreba.
Mada cu mozda i AMD da uzmem. Ipak razlika od 30 i nije mnogo
za josh FPU pa neka ga. Zlu netrebalo.
mikroprocesori.409hadzi,
-> #405, ivanl2.404 i 2.405 mi odgovaraju na isto pitanje?! Zasto?!
mikroprocesori.410ivanl,
-> #408, gmatic Gm> Znaci Cyrix jer mi netreba FPU. Dal sam u pravu?
Gm> Sad nemoj neko da me ubedjuje ma treba ti FPU jer mi netreba.
Gm> Mada cu mozda i AMD da uzmem. Ipak razlika od 30 i nije mnogo
Gm> za josh FPU pa neka ga. Zlu netrebalo.
Nek se nadje...
mikroprocesori.411sofke,
-> #369, miskop> --> Koji mi Pentijum klon preporucujete AMD ili CYRIX(IBM)?
> Ma kakav klon, Intel je prava stvar...:)
Heh, ni Cyrix nije za bacanje :)